Engine Failure related to oil.

[buster]

I was talking with a Mobil rep today and he said he is not to thrilled with Honda and Ford calling for 20wt oils. He said it's all related to CAFE regulations. He also switched all his cars over to 0w-40

. This guy actually said more then "use what is called for in your owners manual".

[ August 25, 2003, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[userfriendly]

That is an odd post from you Buster.
I always thought you to be the reformer on this board.
The light-weight champion.
I can't see you changing your mind and promoting the use of heavier oils, after spending the last month taking the other side of the arguement.

 

[sprintman]

buster isn't the only one swinging. I was the 'thicker viscosity king' but now just don't know and if asked I wouldn't have an opinion (and I'm never a fence sitter).

 

[Robbie Alexander]

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
[QB] --snip

My opion is based on the test of time. We simply have more years of engineering saying that hydrodynamic protection is important then not to throw it out the window.
SMIP

Like your post and I think you are on track.

Stick with what works in and out and when something else like 5-20 has proven itself, thats another story.

All this comes down from the EPA
and we the consumer pays.

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
I don't have the knowledge that most of you have with cars and engines, but at this point my opinion is that viscosity plays little role in wear. I think oils today are far superior then the past and that you can run 20wt oils with no problems. The chemistry is better and additives which are what makes an oil great. Starting with 30wt makes perfect sense but doesn't mean you can't use a 20wt. or even a 40wt. in certain engines. We see good and bad reports in ALL different viscosities. Mobil even states on there website that SAE viscosity alone doesn't tell how well an oil can protect. It's the quality of its' components that makes it good.

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I don't believe this is true Buster, especially that vis. has little to do with wear. If this was the case, why does Honda feel the need to add 400+ ppm of moly on their 20wt oil. They are compensating for the thinner oil and maybe even hoping for the best. I'm gonna jump on JBs band wagon on this issue. Here is my un-educated theory:
-I believe for low HP, low RPMs engines like a Corolla, Civic, Accord, etc; which is NOT MEANT for racing or the like, a thick 5W-20, middle to low 5W-30 oil will do. This would have to be a quality oil like M1, AMS and even Honda's oil.
-For all other small to medium displacement motors that rev high and/or have more HP, then a 5W-30/10W-30 oil should be enough.
For all other applications such as P/U trucks, sports cars, RVing, towing, etc, etc, then, I believe you will benefit from a middle 10W-30 weight on up; to include 40/50 wt. 5W-30/0W-30/40 would be ok for the winter.

I don't see myself towing 5000 lbs of cargo in a Ford truck that the manufacturer recommends a 20wt oil. I'm not that brave.
Rick

 

[Patman]

Without a doubt in my mind, I believe viscosity plays a huge factor in engine wear. You have to match the viscosity to the engine AND to the driving conditions.

For instance, take two engines that are of identical construction, but one person uses that car for road racing and sees 300 degree oil temps, and the next person uses the car strictly for daily driving on the highway, and those two engines will show different results if they use the exact same viscosity.

I believe the 5w20 oils can work for the most part, but need to be used with caution also, as they probably won't be the best for a car that's driven extremely hard. UOAs are definitely needed if you have an engine which calls for 5w20. I certainly would never put it in a new Ford Lightning or a Mustang GT, that's for darn sure! But if my wife got a new Civic, I wouldn't hesitate to try it out for her, at least for the first little while. Also keep in mind that as an engine ages, it'll need a slightly thicker viscosity too. So I wouldn't be running a 5w20 oil in a Honda once it got past 100k, that's for sure.

I'm finally beginning to realize now, that with the loose clearances in my LT1 Firebird, I have been running oils that are too thin for me. I'm sure I'll find my engine likes a 40wt oil much better.

 

[buster]

quote:

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always thought you to be the reformer on this board.
The light-weight champion

---

I ALWAYS change my mind as there are very few things in life that are certain. Plus, its good to play the other side and get things going, that is how questions are solved.

I might now become the Roy Jones Jr of oils and move up with Patman to the heavy weights. I think Patman's post nailed it pretty good. I did some research the other day, albeit basic and I've come to the conclusion that for most new engines or engines with lower HP and tighter clearances, 20wts are fine. However, for LS1's I'm with Patman and I do think a thicker 30wt oil like Amsoil or Redline would show better wear.

Redline specifically states on there website that most engineers who work for automakers would most likely not even use a 5w-30 in there car! On top of that, look at how Redline builds there 20wt oil. It is built better then M1 5w-30! For most passanger cars in the US, M1 is a good choice, but for racing or cars with high HP, the heavier 30wt oils are better. You can make a solid 20wt with lots of additives, and this is what we are seeing to some degree. Honda's oil uses lots of Moly. It also appears that clearances havn't changed much at all and that the trend down in viscosity is all due to MPG/emmissions. Even Castrol's website states that a 10w-40 is the best choice to control wear. Now you might not want to consider Castrol a repuatable company after reading how well there marketing is, but I find it interesting that they say that. I even got a Mobil 1 tech to say he really doesn't like the new 20wts. He even told me he put 0w-40 in all of his cars. Can you believe that!!! A Mobil tech putting something his manual says not to do!

My friend is going to be putting Amsoil 0w-30 in his LS1 2003 C5 and I bet it will be a better choice for him. I am anxiously awaiting to see how is oil pressure and engine temps are after switching.

[ August 28, 2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

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Originally posted by YZF150:
I was in Yuma last month and rented a new Ford product

And so, for a vehicle you'd never seen, driven, or heard before, filled with an oil the viscosity of which you don't know, what you experienced has caused you to conclude that 5w-20 oil is inadequate?

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YZF;
Sir, you criticize JB and others for being suspicious of the lighter weight oils, but you act the same way, just with the heavier weights. It clearly shows here that you like thinner and JB likes thicker. Until one of you is proven wrong, then there is no need for what I think was a small attack on JB.
Some of us hang on to old theories, like the 3000 mile oil change; and many times for good reason. Try 5-7k mile OIC in one of those Toyota sludge builders and you will see caution pays off. It might take a while for many of us to get used to the lighter oils, but if it's proved they work, I'm sure we all will start switching slowly but surely.

Rick