I don't have the knowledge that most of you have with cars and engines, but at this point my opinion is that viscosity plays little role in wear. I think oils today are far superior then the past and that you can run 20wt oils with no problems. The chemistry is better and additives which are what makes an oil great. Starting with 30wt makes perfect sense but doesn't mean you can't use a 20wt. or even a 40wt. in certain engines. We see good and bad reports in ALL different viscosities. Mobil even states on there website that SAE viscosity alone doesn't tell how well an oil can protect. It's the quality of its' components that makes it good.
Engine Failure related to oil.
- Thread starter buster
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Smoky14,John browning,Jimbo:
Very well stated. thankyou
Very well stated. thankyou
Patman
Staff member
I don't think Mobil 1 is too thin for your engine at all Buster, or many small imports. From your UOA it's obvious that it works very well! And a lot of engines out there will do very well on Mobil 1, those with tighter clearances like a lot of small 4 cylinder OHC engines have. But for a lot of engines out there, mainly pushrod V6s and V8s, it truly is too thin, which is why it's good we have the thicker 30wt oils and the 0w40s and 5w40s to fill their needs.quote:
Originally posted by buster:
I have 130k miles on my car with a diet of Trisythetic, Amsoil and SS and the car is like new. 80% of the cars life had the thin, little wimpy Mobil 1 everyone thinks is so inadequate for the job.
consider something tho.....failure due to dirt might take 100K miles, but if dirt gets in, it will eventually win. failure due to lack of oil can take 10 minutes. oil pumps just dont fail, but dirt does get in. take my old truck, given its age, and oil pressure, the bearings have not failed, BUT, Im betting they do have wear...and this would be caused by the little bit of dirt I do get in as part of normal operation.
I was in Yuma last month and rented a new Ford product
And so, for a vehicle you'd never seen, driven, or heard before, filled with an oil the viscosity of which you don't know, what you experienced has caused you to conclude that 5w-20 oil is inadequate?
And so, for a vehicle you'd never seen, driven, or heard before, filled with an oil the viscosity of which you don't know, what you experienced has caused you to conclude that 5w-20 oil is inadequate?
My main point was that I am not going to abondon everything that I was taught at the drop of a dime. Thin oils might prove to be the best someday. Right know though I think the burden of proof is on the 0W20 and 5W20 oils.
I also think that anyone useing such a thin oil should only do so with a couple of UOA under the vechiles belt!! I think that these weights of oil would bother me less if the oils had high amounts of TMP or TME esters in them. Buy high I am talking like 40%. I do not think that PAO or Dino can provide enough film strenght at these weights if you need to go pull stumps, do 3000-5000 RPM launchs, or go rock crawling in 4low with 44 inch tires and lockers front and rear. I also wounder what happens to the oil in the connecting rod bearing at 10,000 RPMS in something like an S2000 in a hard reduceing radius turn at high "G" loading? These are just a few examples that trouble me about the just go "thin" fad.
Once we get a good 10-12 years of this 5W20 diet in a fleet of vechiles we will see how they are going to hold up.
P.S. I think my exposure to 5W20 and 20W20 non-synthetic oil required by Adam Opel in the early 1980's biased me against a twenty weight. I watched alot of cars die from black death on Germanys Autobahn!
I also think that anyone useing such a thin oil should only do so with a couple of UOA under the vechiles belt!! I think that these weights of oil would bother me less if the oils had high amounts of TMP or TME esters in them. Buy high I am talking like 40%. I do not think that PAO or Dino can provide enough film strenght at these weights if you need to go pull stumps, do 3000-5000 RPM launchs, or go rock crawling in 4low with 44 inch tires and lockers front and rear. I also wounder what happens to the oil in the connecting rod bearing at 10,000 RPMS in something like an S2000 in a hard reduceing radius turn at high "G" loading? These are just a few examples that trouble me about the just go "thin" fad.
Once we get a good 10-12 years of this 5W20 diet in a fleet of vechiles we will see how they are going to hold up.
P.S. I think my exposure to 5W20 and 20W20 non-synthetic oil required by Adam Opel in the early 1980's biased me against a twenty weight. I watched alot of cars die from black death on Germanys Autobahn!
Thanks. I extended the lines out on a log graph and that's about what I got. Interesting that the 0W-20 hangs in there. But the bigger issue is that those temps the 15W-50 at these temps is a 20 wt. oil
BTW where did you get the graphs ??? If there is a link-could you email it to me?? Thamks.
I have not seen one truck or car that has run 5W20 make it to 200,000 miles. Until I do, I will run 5W30 in my GT Stang.
Tell me what clearances changed from 00 to 01 (4.6L or 5.4L Ford engine) that would explain the change in motor oil viscocity.
There was no internal changes. 5W20 was born for CAFE reasons.
Sorry to stur up tha $tuff.
[ August 24, 2003, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
Tell me what clearances changed from 00 to 01 (4.6L or 5.4L Ford engine) that would explain the change in motor oil viscocity.
There was no internal changes. 5W20 was born for CAFE reasons.
Sorry to stur up tha $tuff.
[ August 24, 2003, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
BTW where did you get the graphs ??? If there is a link-could you email it to me?? Thamks. [/QB][/QUOTE]
pdf files emailed to ya-
pdf files emailed to ya-
Patman
Staff member
I feel 5w20 can do very well in some of the tighter new engines out there, although I do question it's use in something like the Mustang GT, which will get driven very hard in a lot of cases. I'm sure used oil analysis using 5w20 in a Focus or a Taurus will look just fine, but I wouldn't be too confident in those from a Mustang, not if they are driven like I used to drive both of my 5L Mustangs!
Mark in NYC, that has been my point for a long time.
[ August 24, 2003, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
John, the burden is on 20wt oils. Look at it this way though, instead of just looking at the oil as the factor, consider the changes made in engines or chemistry. Both of these might allow if you will, 20wt oils to be great. Who knows... I want to see that 15w-50 in your Tundra!!! You should then use a 30wt and compare it. I wish Mobil brought the 5w-50 or rebottled the D1 to the market..
quote:
Originally posted by Al:
OK-Based on an article in SAE. It gave information to indicate that oil temps in the oil pan can get as high as 280F in the oilpan
Could some speculate how many cSt a 20, 30, 40, 50 wt. oil would be at this temp ?? C'mon guys-you can do itI'd like to know.
Where do you think I am going with this[/B]
at 280 deg F from charts supplied by Mobil-
Mobil 1 0w30, 5-30, 10-30 and Mobil DC 5-30 are all almost identical at 5 centistokes
Mobil 1 0w40 is 7.5
Mobil 1 15w50 is 9
Mobil 1 0w20 is 4.6
compare all other the above with a relative standard of 5-30 Mobil DC or Pennzoil Conventional at a typical nominal operating temp of 200 deg F which is 12 centistokes !
I am beginning to think that using a multi grade oil is a good place to start but why not make a habit of 0-40 or 10-40 in summer and X-30 in winter. This would actually supply the engine with a more consistant viscosity lubricant.
Buster, my point exactly!
Patman- I ran the 5W20 for 1000 miles (break in) but I switched to Mobil 1 5W30 thanks to all you oil people
. I feel the same way. My pal has a 2002 SVT Lightning and he runs Amsoil 5W20 (XL7500). Amsoil is a great oil, but I feel that in a supercharged truck/car, that you just need more protection. Ford and Honda seem to put a lot of trust in the oil, but I can't see how it protects better in high performance vehicles.
Patman- I ran the 5W20 for 1000 miles (break in) but I switched to Mobil 1 5W30 thanks to all you oil people
Originally posted by labman:
Maybe this is as good a place to bring this up as any. I have been wondering if the thinner oils and smaller oil filters go together? If you think you need a heavier oil for harder service, maybe you need to be careful to use an over size oil filter or at least a proven high quality one. We know filter sizes are dropping for many engines.
Lab, is this your addition?
And you also have to wonder about 5w20 in a F150 under severe service conditions. That's one reason I use 10w30, although the way it sheared ...
[ August 25, 2003, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
quote:
Originally posted by mf150:
Originally posted by labman:
Maybe this is as good a place to bring this up as any. I have been wondering if the thinner oils and smaller oil filters go together? If you think you need a heavier oil for harder service, maybe you need to be careful to use an over size oil filter or at least a proven high quality one. We know filter sizes are dropping for many engines.
Lab, is this your addition?Yeah, sometimes things just don't end up where they should be.
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