End of ethanol subsidy will raise the price of gas

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Maybe Im wrong and E-10 is mandated everywhere, but I was under the impression that it wasnt.



It depends on what area of the country you live in. White areas on this map have no ethanol mandate, gas stations are free to sell whatever they want.

 

[PZR2874]

I like the power that e52 produces and that's it.

I find it funny how they talk about "carbon footprint" and yet all these direct injected engines are popping up everywhere...

 

[ltslimjim]

What on earth is RVP? Thank you!

 

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
What on earth is RVP?


Reid Vapor Pressure. Certain areas require the volatility of gas to be below a certain RVP, especially in the summer.

 

[hooligan24]

I was put off by ethynol when I realised we got more than a 10% loss in miles per gallon, but there is less then 10% of ethynol in fuel. All I see is spending more money to drive the same distance, while helping make politicians that have stock in corn and fuels even more rich than they already are.

might not be as bad if it was an even trade. 10% ethynol for a 10% loss in mpgs sounds fare to me, but most vehicles see a lot more than a 10% loss in mileage.

 

[PZR2874]

Originally Posted By: PZR2874
I like the power that e52 produces and that's it.

I find it funny how they talk about "carbon footprint" and yet all these direct injected engines are popping up everywhere...




Edit: E85

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: hooligan24
I was put off by ethynol when I realised we got more than a 10% loss in miles per gallon, but there is less then 10% of ethynol in fuel. All I see is spending more money to drive the same distance, while helping make politicians that have stock in corn and fuels even more rich than they already are.

might not be as bad if it was an even trade. 10% ethynol for a 10% loss in mpgs sounds fare to me, but most vehicles see a lot more than a 10% loss in mileage.

Thats not really possible.

 

[Kestas]

I know it sounds impossible - according to theory - but it's been documented to be true for some vehicles. It may be the way E10 interacts differently than E0 with the vehicle's sensors.

One engineer who was able to run both E10 and E0 in his vehicle over many fillups found that his gas mileage was so much worse with E10, that his car burned more gasoline (forget the alcohol content) per mile than with pure gas. In that case, on top of the economic argument, you can't even use the political argument for E10.

 

[edhackett]

Samilcar,

The studies were funded by the California Air Resources Board and/or South Coast Air Quality Management District. This was done in the Los Angeles area.

I had a chance to speak to someone involved with the project yesterday and he confirmed that the results showed no net decrease in emissions for E10 with the fleet at that time. Technology had obsoleted the initial intent of the oxygenated fuel.

Ed

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Originally Posted By: hooligan24
I was put off by ethynol when I realised we got more than a 10% loss in miles per gallon, but there is less then 10% of ethynol in fuel. All I see is spending more money to drive the same distance, while helping make politicians that have stock in corn and fuels even more rich than they already are.

might not be as bad if it was an even trade. 10% ethynol for a 10% loss in mpgs sounds fare to me, but most vehicles see a lot more than a 10% loss in mileage.

Thats not really possible.


It's VERY possible, and has been documented by me in our fleet.

Ethanol is pure politics.

 

[hooligan24]

I use to drive 30 miles out of town to get non E fuel. After the station started selling "up to 10% ethynol", my mileage dropped by 4 mpg's average. my normal average was 25.5 mpg, which would make 10% equal to 2.5-2.6, not 4.0+

 

[MNgopher]

Is a greater than 10% fuel mileage difference possible on E10 vs E0? Yes. Is it the average, as some would like to beleive? No. Test documentation in a variety of vehicles and conditions shows a fuel mileage decrease, on average, of 3-5% for E10 blends.

This assumes that the E0 fuel being compared to is the exact same as the 90% gasoline component of E10. However, that is often not the case, as the refiners adjust the fuel composition for the 10% ethanol component, meaning that not all of the differnece noted is strictly due to the ethanol.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Gasoline in California was so lousy that I didn't detect any MPG lost with either E10 or Winter formula.

 

[PZR2874]

^That I believe.

Is the pee water 91 the best they get?

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I know it sounds impossible - according to theory - but it's been documented to be true for some vehicles. It may be the way E10 interacts differently than E0 with the vehicle's sensors.

One engineer who was able to run both E10 and E0 in his vehicle over many fillups found that his gas mileage was so much worse with E10, that his car burned more gasoline (forget the alcohol content) per mile than with pure gas. In that case, on top of the economic argument, you can't even use the political argument for E10.

Maybe in some extreme and very limited circumstances someone can document that E10 results in an equal or greater loss in MPG but this would be an extreme situation and far from the rule. I'm no fan of E10, its harsh on my 70 but the argument that it has this kind of effect on MPG is baseless in the real world.

 

[Kestas]

The engineer experienced this problem with a 2008 Nissan Rogue. I agree that it isn't common, but we really don't know how widespread this is. And we can't find this out for ourselves in Michigan because there are no 100% gasoline stations available to the average person to do such testing, if so inclined.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Maybe it doesn't cause YOUR car to lose more than 10% mileage but it causes 3500 Savana 6.0's, 1500 Silverado 4.8's, 1500 Silverado 5.3's, and a lowly Chrysler 6.1 to do exactly that. My other cars are not driven enough to notice mileage differences.

And I'm far from the only one with that exact issue.

The only people who claim it's a good thing are the ones who drank the kool-aid!

 

[hooligan24]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
The engineer experienced this problem with a 2008 Nissan Rogue. I agree that it isn't common, but we really don't know how widespread this is. And we can't find this out for ourselves in Michigan because there are no 100% gasoline stations available to the average person to do such testing, if so inclined.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MI

 

[Kestas]

I've seen similar web sites. Looking through the link, the nearest station to me with pure gas is 20 miles away in the ghetto... not in my commute. Others are chiefly at marinas.

 

[SteveSRT8]

and most of us with boats know that a marina is the most expensive gas in town!