I have hsa. Good for.young healthy people. Lower montly payments, lots of preventive things 100% covered. Works gives you free money every year, so why feel bad about it? Yeah you will be screwed little more, if something serious happens.
Employer Switching to HSA
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JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Wait a Minute. Our King and Saviour stated emphatically that health care costs would go down for everyone.
What am I missing?
I have had two Sister's in Laws die from cancer a year apart over five years ago and the Hosp bills were tremendous. The husbands had to pay $5k total out of pocket for each case.
Well last I checked this new system or law set hasn't been truly completely implemented.
Your info from over five years ago strengthens the point that the system is way broken.
Wait a Minute. Our King and Saviour stated emphatically that health care costs would go down for everyone.
What am I missing?
I have had two Sister's in Laws die from cancer a year apart over five years ago and the Hosp bills were tremendous. The husbands had to pay $5k total out of pocket for each case.
Well last I checked this new system or law set hasn't been truly completely implemented.
Your info from over five years ago strengthens the point that the system is way broken.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Both the previous company that I worked for and my insurance that I cover for my wife and I have the same coverage.
First $7000 comes out of our pocket.
It's pretty much catastrophic insurance. If someone is in a terrible accident or something tragic happens $7000 each will be spent in a few hours in a ICU.
I used to work for a huge company and had awesome coverage.
Boy how times have changed.
But isn't that what insurance is for????
Do you put in a homeowners claim when you get your furnace cleaned or a lightbulb burns out? Do you put in a car claim from a cart in the store parking lot?
IMO us using health insurance as the sole payer for healthcare has CAUSED this issue.
Both the previous company that I worked for and my insurance that I cover for my wife and I have the same coverage.
First $7000 comes out of our pocket.
It's pretty much catastrophic insurance. If someone is in a terrible accident or something tragic happens $7000 each will be spent in a few hours in a ICU.
I used to work for a huge company and had awesome coverage.
Boy how times have changed.
But isn't that what insurance is for????
Do you put in a homeowners claim when you get your furnace cleaned or a lightbulb burns out? Do you put in a car claim from a cart in the store parking lot?
IMO us using health insurance as the sole payer for healthcare has CAUSED this issue.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Being young and healthy I opted for the high-deductible plan w/ HSA a few years ago. Fortunately/unfortunately, I ended up in the hospital for a week after emergency surgery. I say fortunately, because unlike a med savings account, the money builds up as you contribute, so when I went to the ER in late August, I had already built up enough to nearly cover my deductible.
Thinking I might have more complications I switched back to the low-deductible plan, but didn't end up going to the Dr. more than a couple of times for routine stuff.
Last year and this year I'm back on the high-deductible plan. I saved >$2k last year, and have maxed out for this year. If I don't withdraw more than what routine visits require, then my plan is to drop off my contributions to as low as possible.
I may reconsider, and treat this as a quasi-401k. The ROI is terrible if left in the account with a low balance, but there is a limit (I need to look this up, but I think it's $2k,) where they allow you to invest in certain funds vice their standard savings-account interest rate.
Overall, I think it's a decent plan if you don't have tons of expensive medical requirements. Even if something bad happens, the worst you'll be responsible for is the deductible, which shouldn't bankrupt most people if you have any kind of savings. if you have no savings, the choice of a low-deductible plan, and the high-deductible is multi-thousands of dollars, then I'd recommend against this, but it makes sense for many of use youngin's who are relatively healthy.
Thinking I might have more complications I switched back to the low-deductible plan, but didn't end up going to the Dr. more than a couple of times for routine stuff.
Last year and this year I'm back on the high-deductible plan. I saved >$2k last year, and have maxed out for this year. If I don't withdraw more than what routine visits require, then my plan is to drop off my contributions to as low as possible.
I may reconsider, and treat this as a quasi-401k. The ROI is terrible if left in the account with a low balance, but there is a limit (I need to look this up, but I think it's $2k,) where they allow you to invest in certain funds vice their standard savings-account interest rate.
Overall, I think it's a decent plan if you don't have tons of expensive medical requirements. Even if something bad happens, the worst you'll be responsible for is the deductible, which shouldn't bankrupt most people if you have any kind of savings. if you have no savings, the choice of a low-deductible plan, and the high-deductible is multi-thousands of dollars, then I'd recommend against this, but it makes sense for many of use youngin's who are relatively healthy.
I used to have it, and IMO it is ok if you do not have any other choices or if you are not expecting to visit the doctors on a regular basis. My chiropractor limit basically killed it for me as it would cost $1200.
It is good for young healthy adult, and those who couldn't afford to get any affordable plan. Yes you have a chance of paying $5k but it is better than having to skip health insurance.
It is good for young healthy adult, and those who couldn't afford to get any affordable plan. Yes you have a chance of paying $5k but it is better than having to skip health insurance.
JHZR2
Staff member
The thing is if one goes for a low deductible, traditional plan, the cost is much higher, and there still is a copay and possibly some deductible. A perpetual deductible hitter, year after year may be out some more dollars, but I'm not seeing how it becomes a giant amount either really.
Remember that in one year, the delta for the plan is already possibly $2600 or more, less than the traditional. Add the $1200 return of premium, and you already have the $3800 to cover deductible right there.
I went to a chiropractor for a time, and he gave me a self-pay price. It was $35/visit iirc. I was ok with that, paid it with hsa pre-tax money and all was well. One of the tenets of hdhps are that people shop and try to get a beneficial deal. It's not like regular plans don't have limits on stuff like chiro and pt...
Remember that in one year, the delta for the plan is already possibly $2600 or more, less than the traditional. Add the $1200 return of premium, and you already have the $3800 to cover deductible right there.
I went to a chiropractor for a time, and he gave me a self-pay price. It was $35/visit iirc. I was ok with that, paid it with hsa pre-tax money and all was well. One of the tenets of hdhps are that people shop and try to get a beneficial deal. It's not like regular plans don't have limits on stuff like chiro and pt...
I thought Obamacare was outlawing HSA's??
Originally Posted By: MBS500
I have hsa. Good for.young healthy people. Lower montly payments, lots of preventive things 100% covered. Works gives you free money every year, so why feel bad about it? Yeah you will be screwed little more, if something serious happens.
+1
I have hsa. Good for.young healthy people. Lower montly payments, lots of preventive things 100% covered. Works gives you free money every year, so why feel bad about it? Yeah you will be screwed little more, if something serious happens.
+1
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: KenO
I thought Obamacare was outlawing HSA's??
That would be terrible. I can get the exchanges and setting up so that small groups can have the purchasing power of large ones... But the type of insurance, including HDHPs (which are what uses an HSA, an HSA isnt an insurance policy in and of itself) shouldnt be messed with IMO.
I thought Obamacare was outlawing HSA's??
That would be terrible. I can get the exchanges and setting up so that small groups can have the purchasing power of large ones... But the type of insurance, including HDHPs (which are what uses an HSA, an HSA isnt an insurance policy in and of itself) shouldnt be messed with IMO.
Please look at your plan document as MANY if not all "wellness" services are covered at 100%... and is no cost to you.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Both the previous company that I worked for and my insurance that I cover for my wife and I have the same coverage.
First $7000 comes out of our pocket.
It's pretty much catastrophic insurance. If someone is in a terrible accident or something tragic happens $7000 each will be spent in a few hours in a ICU.
I used to work for a huge company and had awesome coverage.
Boy how times have changed.
But isn't that what insurance is for????
Do you put in a homeowners claim when you get your furnace cleaned or a lightbulb burns out? Do you put in a car claim from a cart in the store parking lot?
IMO us using health insurance as the sole payer for healthcare has CAUSED this issue.
You nailed it
Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
Both the previous company that I worked for and my insurance that I cover for my wife and I have the same coverage.
First $7000 comes out of our pocket.
It's pretty much catastrophic insurance. If someone is in a terrible accident or something tragic happens $7000 each will be spent in a few hours in a ICU.
I used to work for a huge company and had awesome coverage.
Boy how times have changed.
But isn't that what insurance is for????
Do you put in a homeowners claim when you get your furnace cleaned or a lightbulb burns out? Do you put in a car claim from a cart in the store parking lot?
IMO us using health insurance as the sole payer for healthcare has CAUSED this issue.
You nailed it
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
I'm not really following this??
How does an HSA "cover" anything? It's a pre-tax savings account that you can use to pay for qualified medical expenses.
Your medical plan/coverage/insurance (what ever you want to call it) is something separate. Correct? That's how it is for me.
With my HSA, I can invest the balance in pretty much anything Fidelity offers and leave it in there for a lifetime if I choose.
My lousy BCBS PPO, high deductible 80% is a separate entity from my HSA.
Joel
How does an HSA "cover" anything? It's a pre-tax savings account that you can use to pay for qualified medical expenses.
Your medical plan/coverage/insurance (what ever you want to call it) is something separate. Correct? That's how it is for me.
With my HSA, I can invest the balance in pretty much anything Fidelity offers and leave it in there for a lifetime if I choose.
My lousy BCBS PPO, high deductible 80% is a separate entity from my HSA.
Joel
Last edited:
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: JTK
I'm not really following this??
How does an HSA "cover" anything? It's a pre-tax savings account that you can use to pay for qualified medical expenses.
Your medical plan/coverage/insurance (what ever you want to call it) is something separate. Correct? That's how it is for me.
With my HSA, I can invest the balance in pretty much anything Fidelity offers and leave it in there for a lifetime if I choose.
My lousy BCBS PPO, high deductible 80% is a separate entity from my HSA.
Joel
Exactly. HSA is the wrong term, I believe the OP really meant HDHP with HSA. He has an HDHP and the employer gives a debit card with $1200 in the HSA.
No different than any other.
I'm not really following this??
How does an HSA "cover" anything? It's a pre-tax savings account that you can use to pay for qualified medical expenses.
Your medical plan/coverage/insurance (what ever you want to call it) is something separate. Correct? That's how it is for me.
With my HSA, I can invest the balance in pretty much anything Fidelity offers and leave it in there for a lifetime if I choose.
My lousy BCBS PPO, high deductible 80% is a separate entity from my HSA.
Joel
Exactly. HSA is the wrong term, I believe the OP really meant HDHP with HSA. He has an HDHP and the employer gives a debit card with $1200 in the HSA.
No different than any other.
Originally Posted By: JTK
I'm not really following this??
How does an HSA "cover" anything? It's a pre-tax savings account that you can use to pay for qualified medical expenses.
Joel
Usually, when people refer to an HSA, they're talking about an HSA/HDHP, because you can't have an HSA without an HDHP.
On the subject of Obamacare and the future of HSAs, things are unclear. As part of the legislation, the tax benefits of HSAs (and FSAs) were gutted about two years ago. They're still a very good value, especially for those not in a group plan, because HSA deposits are tax free, while insurance premiums are post-tax. A regular PPO outside of a group plan is simply a poor value.
In 2014, it's very likely the maximum deductible will be reduced by DHHS. However, the real killer for HSAs is the MLR requirements for all policies -- Because overhead doesn't necessarily scale in accordance to premiums paid, it's going to be very hard for insurers to meet the 80% requirement.
My family has a bare bones $10,000 HDHP that is a great value but in all likelihood it wont be around next year, because of MLR requirements, the size of the deductible, and it doesn't cover mandated care by Obamacare (specifically, it doesn't cover maternity). That being said, it's a great policy and is saving us close to $10,000/year in premiums over our previous PPO.
When pricing out policies, it's important to look at likely expenditures (premiums + likely medical expenses) and worst case scenario. With a PPO, you'll virtually never come out ahead because the first dollar coverages (co-pays, no cost share, etc.) are directly reflected in premiums. With an HSA, also factor in the tax advantages of the account, which really add up.
I'm not really following this??
How does an HSA "cover" anything? It's a pre-tax savings account that you can use to pay for qualified medical expenses.
Joel
Usually, when people refer to an HSA, they're talking about an HSA/HDHP, because you can't have an HSA without an HDHP.
On the subject of Obamacare and the future of HSAs, things are unclear. As part of the legislation, the tax benefits of HSAs (and FSAs) were gutted about two years ago. They're still a very good value, especially for those not in a group plan, because HSA deposits are tax free, while insurance premiums are post-tax. A regular PPO outside of a group plan is simply a poor value.
In 2014, it's very likely the maximum deductible will be reduced by DHHS. However, the real killer for HSAs is the MLR requirements for all policies -- Because overhead doesn't necessarily scale in accordance to premiums paid, it's going to be very hard for insurers to meet the 80% requirement.
My family has a bare bones $10,000 HDHP that is a great value but in all likelihood it wont be around next year, because of MLR requirements, the size of the deductible, and it doesn't cover mandated care by Obamacare (specifically, it doesn't cover maternity). That being said, it's a great policy and is saving us close to $10,000/year in premiums over our previous PPO.
When pricing out policies, it's important to look at likely expenditures (premiums + likely medical expenses) and worst case scenario. With a PPO, you'll virtually never come out ahead because the first dollar coverages (co-pays, no cost share, etc.) are directly reflected in premiums. With an HSA, also factor in the tax advantages of the account, which really add up.
I think an HSA would be all right as long as your employer is giving you the equivalent benefit value of the previous plan. I'm all for people holding their benefit money and hand and seeing it actually being spent and maybe being more responsible with it.
Although, I'm betting the $1200 is not equivalent and constitutes a benefit cut and most of the savings is realized by the employer with higher healthcare expendentures borne by the employee.
Although, I'm betting the $1200 is not equivalent and constitutes a benefit cut and most of the savings is realized by the employer with higher healthcare expendentures borne by the employee.
I agree a lot with what JHZR2 says regarding insurance.
Just got a letter from my insurer telling me that premiums are going up 10%, cataracts, knees and hips are no longer covered...but take advantage of our new benefits that include gym shoes, sunglasses with purchase of prescription glasses.
Insurance doesn't need to cover shoes and glasses...
Just got a letter from my insurer telling me that premiums are going up 10%, cataracts, knees and hips are no longer covered...but take advantage of our new benefits that include gym shoes, sunglasses with purchase of prescription glasses.
Insurance doesn't need to cover shoes and glasses...
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: kb01
..Usually, when people refer to an HSA, they're talking about an HSA/HDHP, because you can't have an HSA without an HDHP..
Ahh! Thanks guys. I totally forgot about that little fact.
Getting back to the original post, I don't really mind this particular setup. If it's a bill I don't want to pay out of pocket, I can call the office and give them my HSA debit/VISA card number and like magic.. the bill is paid.
I have yet to be able to manipulate any of my HSA funds because I'm only 6mo into it and don't have enough in there to distribute around.
With my particular plan, only a few things are freebies (and don't apply towards $2500 deductible), well baby visits and OB/GYN are examples of 'freebies' if you will. Even with my family of 6, I don't typically meet my yearly deductible. I have to pay full boat for prescriptions too, unless the deductible is met. That hurts because I have some regular prescriptions and bloodwork I have to do.
When I started w/ my employer 16yrs ago, we literally had an entire BOOK of HCPs to choose from. Most HMOs at little cost to us w/ nothing but $20-25 co-pays.
Having lived through the golden age of HCPs, I don't like to lay back and say meh? get used to it. I don't think ANY working class person should have to live like a pauper because of health care cost. It ain't right no matter how look at it. I guess that's another thread that would likely get locked though.
Joel
..Usually, when people refer to an HSA, they're talking about an HSA/HDHP, because you can't have an HSA without an HDHP..
Ahh! Thanks guys. I totally forgot about that little fact.
Getting back to the original post, I don't really mind this particular setup. If it's a bill I don't want to pay out of pocket, I can call the office and give them my HSA debit/VISA card number and like magic.. the bill is paid.
I have yet to be able to manipulate any of my HSA funds because I'm only 6mo into it and don't have enough in there to distribute around.
With my particular plan, only a few things are freebies (and don't apply towards $2500 deductible), well baby visits and OB/GYN are examples of 'freebies' if you will. Even with my family of 6, I don't typically meet my yearly deductible. I have to pay full boat for prescriptions too, unless the deductible is met. That hurts because I have some regular prescriptions and bloodwork I have to do.
When I started w/ my employer 16yrs ago, we literally had an entire BOOK of HCPs to choose from. Most HMOs at little cost to us w/ nothing but $20-25 co-pays.
Having lived through the golden age of HCPs, I don't like to lay back and say meh? get used to it. I don't think ANY working class person should have to live like a pauper because of health care cost. It ain't right no matter how look at it. I guess that's another thread that would likely get locked though.
Joel
I think people are confusing HSA and FSA.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: dparm
I think people are confusing HSA and FSA.
An HSA and an FSA are roughly the same thing... At least to an extent.
Both are funded by pre-tax money IF the employee decides to fund it.
Im not sure if an employer can give money in an FSA the way they can in an HSA.
But an FSA expires each year, while the HSA is yours forever.
An FSA is a standalone entity.
An HSA can only be had with an HDHP. The HSA is just the cash holding entity associated with the insurance.
I think people are confusing HSA and FSA.
An HSA and an FSA are roughly the same thing... At least to an extent.
Both are funded by pre-tax money IF the employee decides to fund it.
Im not sure if an employer can give money in an FSA the way they can in an HSA.
But an FSA expires each year, while the HSA is yours forever.
An FSA is a standalone entity.
An HSA can only be had with an HDHP. The HSA is just the cash holding entity associated with the insurance.
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