Electric grid upgrade issues.

[wwillson]

He told me you can't debate with radicals

Or as my late father told me, "Do not argue with someone who knows more than you about a topic, because you will look like a fool".

 

[OVERKILL]

I met a guy from CSIS. Perhaps you know this name?

He told me you can't debate with radicals, because they pick and choose tiny pieces that fit there arguments, twist your words at every turn, and use multiple other tricks to attempt to make there point. There not interested in discussing the big picture.

100% of this conversation, if we can actually call it that, is predicated on this:


This cause you great angst, which you have written likely thousands of words to refute, but you haven't - because it really is this simple. In the USA there a) is no long term storage, and b) no lockbox of funds or other decommissioning or accidents or other costs possibly born buy future taxpayers.

These are facts. You can try to twist whatever you like to say this is not, but it is 100% factually correct.

Nothing in this conversation has caused me great angst my friend. That's why I'm not calling people idiots. Again, have a great Tuesday, maybe touch some grass?

 

[JimPghPA]

Big substation transformers for substations and power generation stations are not a standard power and voltage design.

There are universal transformers that usually are portable and take up an entire large trailer box that are hauled by a big rig. Most large utilities have one or two of them for temporary replacing a bad transformer in a substation. But being universal they have more windings and taps built into the transformer and cost more.

No utility would want to pay extra to permanently wire in a universal as a replacement for its life time of use.

So, they order specifically what's needed. Each is custom built.

Its been over 30 years since I worked for an electric utilit, but things probably are about the same. Sometimes they get lucky and something is already built. More often than not it's a wait of a month to a year.

These transformers are huge. Just moving one of the largest is a major project.

 

[Torrid]

It just goes to show that there's just so much anger around EVs on this site and frankly the world. Not sure why all of these topics are what take over an EV sub forum.

It's why I spend a lot less time here than I used to and don't get as involved as I used to. Just not worth dealing with with hot headed people who just want to complain about something they have no interest in buying. I'm really miffed. It's still a common occurrence with people I work with. Never thought that would be part of a vehicle purchase.

 

[OVERKILL]

Big substation transformers for substations and power generation stations are not a standard power and voltage design.

There are universal transformers that usually are portable and take up an entire large trailer box that are hauled by a big rig. Most large utilities have one or two of them for temporary replacing a bad transformer in a substation. But being universal they have more windings and taps built into the transformer and cost more.

No utility would want to pay extra to permanently wire in a universal as a replacement for its life time of use.

So, they order specifically what's needed. Each is custom built.

Its been over 30 years since I worked for an electric utilit, but things probably are about the same. Sometimes they get lucky and something is already built. More often than not it's a wait of a month to a year.

These transformers are huge. Just moving one of the largest is a major project.

Yeah, they recently started a switchyard overhaul at Bruce A. It's our oldest operating plant and is receiving some considerable uprates, so I assume this was determined to be necessary for reliable operation going forward. The A units started out at a combined output of 2,960 MWe, currently they are at about 3,320 MWe, and 2030 target is ~3,560 MWe, so an increase of about 600 MWe for that switchyard to handle.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Or as my late father told me, "Do not argue with someone who knows more than you about a topic, because you will look like a fool".

Or can't refute specific facts, so attack the messengers opinion.

There is no long term US storage location. Prove me wrong.
There is no lockbox for future costs, only assurances.

100% of what this is about. Still facts.

Feel free to close my account.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Or as my late father told me, "Do not argue with someone who knows more than you about a topic, because you will look like a fool".

I resemble that remark...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Sometimes I wish for a bit more openmindedness. When I hear something 180 degrees out of my own thoughts, I try and consider, "Why do you think that?" instead of striking out.

“I'm smart enough to know that I'm dumb.”
― Richard Feynman

 

[wwillson]

Feel free to close my account.

Absolutely not, we can disagree here without getting mad.

 

[Geekhead]

I mean, that's the case for any media source at this juncture. I find Epoch pretty mild on the propaganda front compared to other outlets, like say the Toronto Star.

On the other side National Post

 

[OVERKILL]

On the other side National Post

I would say the Toronto Sun would be the inversion of the Star. National Post (and its sister publication the Financial Post) are more like inversions of Global or CTV, or for the latter, the Globe and Mail. The CBC really tries to be centrist for the most part, I'll give them that. The fun part is that they all sometimes produce quality content, so writing them off because of their bad stuff results in you missing the good.

 

[Geekhead]

I would say the Toronto Sun would be the inversion of the Star. National Post (and its sister publication the Financial Post) are more like inversions of Global or CTV, or for the latter, the Globe and Mail. The CBC really tries to be centrist for the most part, I'll give them that. The fun part is that they all sometimes produce quality content, so writing them off because of their bad stuff results in you missing the good.

I suppose I am thinking more of the opinion posts that tend to be more right leaning. These days you must sift everything with a degree of critical thinking to recognize poor reasoning and distorted framing. You must ask deeper questions and think independently.

 

[Brons2]

Before the pandemic China had a near total monopoly on specific large scale transformers. Then during the pandemic long leadtime transformers were never delivered and the places who took the orders went dark like nobody was on the other end. (That’s 6 years ago zndcrelates to China moving back to centralized control)

Far as I know many replacements have no source available for replacement and everybody quit making specific but critical types.

On this topic IT IS CRIMINAL we are wasting copper on grid and EV charge stations.

Copper clad aluminum as primary motivators were perfected 30 years ago and usuable in place of copper for 90% of applications.
we have been flirting with shortages of many common items becoming so accute that we almost have found ourselves in military production act territory.

We should start banning solid copper wire use on new designs across the board outside contacts and other places copper has no substitute .

It is extremely foolish that we didn’t preemptively understand there is and won’t be any supply of many items for 5-10 years, so we have to start using less desirable materials in many applications like EV charge cables and power lines.

This would make stealing these nearly valueless items pointless and we have tough guard materials that make it extremely difficult and dangerous to steal cord.

Very shortsighted we continue on normally a decade after we knew there was no solution to these supply issues

I wouldn't call it criminal per se but it would certainly be more cost and resource effective to use more aluminum wiring in many scenarios including household wiring. Unfortunately it got a bad rap in the 50s-70s and a lot of houses that got built with aluminum wiring in that time frame had it pulled out in favor of Romex. I pulled it out of a 60s house that I owned as part of a remodeling project in the 2000s, back when you could get 250 feet of copper 12/2 for less than $50 at the orange home improvement store.

 

[Brons2]

Oh the data centers. Our city officials sold us out. Three data centers being built here in the future, one already in construction. We knew nothing of it until it was in construction. Approved in the dark of night with no say by the constituents. You may know the comedian Charlie Berens, famous for his exaggerated Wisconsin accent. He came here to speak out about the data centers and the elected officials going against the wishes of our community. Our affordable power will be gone.

The city council used to frequent our favorite restaurant in town after city council meetings. No one has seen a single official in public outside of official business since the truth was found out. At least the blip on the radar EVs are something everyone can complain about here!

I'm so sick of dealing with the BS surrounding EVs. For those that are actually bothered about it, here's some advice. It's a car. Get over it. It has a battery under it to store power from many materials around the globe to produce it and the power comes from multiple power sources including wind, solar, natural gas, and coal. Find something else to do with your time if it aggravates you so much. Grind your axe and swing at me about me being a problem in an EV and I'm done holding back. I'm not a punching bag. I'm not responsible for your anger and problems for something you don't like. I don't have any nice left in me and I'm not going to pretend to be ok with the abuse because you can't hold your feels in. You are all big boys, act like it.

Kiss my electrodes, eh?

 

[Brons2]

You mean like after two years I finally saw an EV at the four tax payer funded chargers … even seeing an EV in my town is almost a guarantee one of the kids came home for the WE …
(That lives 50 miles away) …

What city is this in? The chargers along the major freeways between Texas cities are heavily utilized, i.e., I-10, I-20, I-30, I-35, I-45. I've had to wait for a charger to become available several times because they were all full. This is why Tesla is now concentrating their efforts along major thoroughfares and major cities as opposed to putting Superchargers in out of the way locations.

 

[Brons2]

IMHO the only long term reliable source of sustainable power is nuclear

I would add "baseload" to this statement. It's the most sustainable baseload capacity long term. There is no other energy source that offers a higher energy potential than the splitting of the atom. Of course, capital costs of nuclear are extremely high, so there is that, but hopefully with tech getting involved with securing their own nuclear power supply, breakthrough efficiencies in plant construction and operation will be made.

Otherwise, the sun is going to shine and wind is going to blow, they can play a part.

 

[Brons2]

it's like putting a man on Pluto.

I don't care what these modern teachers and kids say, Pluto is a planet! You know these commies nowadays are teaching kids that there's 8 planets in our solar system! Unbelievable. We are moving our kid to private school next year because of it, where they will learn proper science.

(only halfway kidding...we are moving our kid to a private Christian school, but not because of Pluto)

 

[OVERKILL]

I suppose I am thinking more of the opinion posts that tend to be more right leaning.

Yeah, I see the same thing in the TorStar but on the flip, often they are fantasy peddled as "news". Jack Gibbons gets significant coverage there and my dog has forgotten more about powergen than he'll ever know.

These days you must sift everything with a degree of critical thinking to recognize poor reasoning and distorted framing. You must ask deeper questions and think independently.

Absolutely agreed. And AI is making this even worse

 

[JeffKeryk]

I don't care what these modern teachers and kids say, Pluto is a planet! You know these commies nowadays are teaching kids that there's 8 planets in our solar system! Unbelievable. We are moving our kid to private school next year because of it, where they will learn proper science.

(only halfway kidding...we are moving our kid to a private Christian school, but not because of Pluto)

Dang dwarf planet?

 

[Torrid]

I don't care what these modern teachers and kids say, Pluto is a planet! You know these commies nowadays are teaching kids that there's 8 planets in our solar system! Unbelievable. We are moving our kid to private school next year because of it, where they will learn proper science.

(only halfway kidding...we are moving our kid to a private Christian school, but not because of Pluto)

I thought it was back to being a planet. Did I miss something? Ah, I can't keep up with this astronomy stuff...