Ecotec

[lght1]

Hi

I suspect Me. could show Mn a thing or two about corrosion.
Our roads are white from November through March. Couple this mess with roads not fit to be called as such..and its a very harsh climate for cars.

A 15 yr old Toy or Honda usually wont pass inspection due to floorboard rot.
Most wind up as field beaters for kids.

15 yr old Buicks and the like are usually cabs.

BTW, although it could fail anytime...what is significant about 227,000 miles?

The trans pan is dropped 3x a year with once being a filter, plus a b&m cooler, has kept this thing going. There is never any metal or clutch material in the pan or magnet.

 

[lght1]

Hi

That these 3800's are more than capable of 200,000+ miles is perhaps an "extremist" position...lol.

Unlike others on GM, I dont run down the toys and hondas, I just report what can be easily be observed.

FWIW, my next car will have the eco 2.2 or 2.4 depending on what model i choose.

Regarding perfection, neither are there yet, although at over 100,000 miles, the Imapalas at work are in much better condition than the camrys and the sonata.

Squeaks and rattles, plus corrosion on the neighbor's 01 is enough for me.

 

[norseman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kernel Potter:
Honda 2.2 liter DOHC I4 237 horsepower
162 ft. lbs. of torque
EPA estimate - 26mpg *up from 25mpg in 2005 model year*


GM 7.0 liter pushrod V8:
505 horsepower
475 ft. lbs of torque
EPA estimate - 26 mpg

Both cars are 6 speed manuals with the more powerful car weighing 300 pounds more.


It isn't hard to see which one is technically superior, except the pushrod engine only revs to 7,000rpm so you can't impress your friends with talk of double overhead cams and a 8,500rpm redline.

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I love it!

BURN!!!

 

[dailydriver]

quote:

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Originally posted by norseman:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kernel Potter:
Honda 2.2 liter DOHC I4 237 horsepower
162 ft. lbs. of torque
EPA estimate - 26mpg *up from 25mpg in 2005 model year*


GM 7.0 liter pushrod V8:
505 horsepower
475 ft. lbs of torque
EPA estimate - 26 mpg

Both cars are 6 speed manuals with the more powerful car weighing 300 pounds more.


It isn't hard to see which one is technically superior, except the pushrod engine only revs to 7,000rpm so you can't impress your friends with talk of double overhead cams and a 8,500rpm redline.

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I love it!

BURN!!!

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HA! There is a 12 page thread on this same topic going on over in the LS2/LS7 Engine section over at www.ls1tech.com Funny, the "techies" (those who believe only multi-valve/dohc engines can be "high tech") never give in, no matter how many doctors of engineering prove them wrong!

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:

quote:

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Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
[(...snip...) I'm just happy $3 of tabs fixes it.

I'm still giving it a YES, you can take it however you want.

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OK then, we can just agree to disagree on that one.

Still a big NO to me. I mean, I could almost agree with you if my engine's cooling system also needed to be fed chopped vegetable tablets to keep from spilling itself into the crankcase, but strangely enough, it does not. . .

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Let me know if that's still true at 227,000 miles.

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Roger that, TK, will do. At my present pace, it will only take me about four more years to get there. In the meantime, we can start counting up the vast number of 60 deg engines that have drowned themselves on their own coolant, and 231s that have burned a hole in their own intakes. Of course, we wouldn't need anywhere near as long to tally up the VQs that have performed the same uncivilized feats. . .

Guys, I'm enjoying this repartee as much as you are. But I think we're to the point where this is like a bunch of kids in a Baskin-Robbins store arguing about whose favorite ice cream is "best." TK, believe it or not, I wasn't really expecting that at any moment you were going to break down, replying, "gee ek, you were right all along -- I'm going out to buy a Toyota right now today!" I trust that you are equally aware that I am just as unlikely to be suddenly and miraculously converted away from what I believe. Well hey, at least this one hasn't gotten ugly like so many similar threads have.

 

[ekpolk]

lght:

Where are you actually located? We don't, of course, need your street address, or even actual city. Besides, even if I had your actual, precise address, it's not as if I'd be on your doorstep tomorrow trying to sell you an Infiniti (I know better by now). Incidentally, I grew up in salty New Hampshire. I fondly remember tooling about in high school (I was class of '79) in an early 70s Corolla that belonged to my best friend's Dad. As crass as it is (hey, the Statute of Limitations has expired), we'd relieve ourselves into bottles and pour the "contents" out through one of several "openings" available in the floor area.

You are correct about GM transmissions. For all the nutty, inexplicable, bean-counter driven madness we've seen from GM in the past couple decades, they've managed to make some supremely nice slushboxes. If either of my Buicks deserved an "A" grade for anything, it would be the trans. I don't agree with you're apparent happiness at the coming of Dex-6. It's going to be nasty expensive like the specialized poison my G35 requires (at ~$10 per quart, no kidding... bet you enjoy that thought!). Honda has made some pi$$ poor autos and the one in my G35 is fine, but not really preferable to a GM box in any noticeable way (and NOT preferrable when you factor in ATF cost...).

Now, here's my respectful, yet slightly in-yer-face challenge: can you admit that there's anything good in a Toyota or Infiniti???

 

[speedtc]

Hyundai and kia have passed the cobalt in overall quality and value. American cars are almost all behind in quality issues. They will last long of course but will not age as well as the foreign jobbies.

 

[ekpolk]

My apologies guys, but you realize I'm sure, I simply had to do this. Two weeks or so ago, I destroyed my trusty cell phone, and ended up cutting a deal which included a Moto Razr, which happens to include a camera. Which I totally didn't care about -- until I was driving back from work a couple hours ago with the phone in my lap and the silly "bluetooth" thing stuck in my ear. Lo and behold, imagine what appeared right in front of me -- you guessed it -- one of those non-existent Toyota taxi cabs!

All I had to do was hold the phone up and push one button! Eyes never off the road. Well, see for yourself:

 

[lght1]

Hi

Of course, I cant be everywhere, but in my state ( maine ), i have never seen a ricer cab.

Now, lets get to the game. Tell me, just how could i have benefitted over my Olds by buying a camry?

I have seen them with around 100,000 miles, and apparently, I am not so easily impressed.

My GM "H-body" have no squeaks, rattles, or cancer. I get 28 mpg, all the room i want, and a very sporty ride to boot. It seems from observation, that everything I dont have, Camry would provide in spades. I really dont want those kinds of benefits.

BTW, I just bought dexron VI at dealership at around $2.50/qt. I cant really call that expensive.

 

[norseman]

quote:

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Originally posted by speedtc:
Hyundai and kia have passed the cobalt in overall quality and value.

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Ya right !

You're killin' me!

 

[CharBaby]

I just rented a Cobalt 2 door,(took whatever they gave me) when I visited my daughter in AZ. The drive train was great. Nice and smooth and the auto tranny shifted great. Plenty of power and the ride and handling was very well balanced.

 

[javacontour]

I drove a Cobalt at the GM test drive event late last summer (or early fall) and was not really impressed. Oh, the powertrain was fine, but the rest of the car seemed cheap and really left me wanting more.

Now I did like that engine in the Solstice I drove,

It was a good combination.

 

[lght1]

Hi

quote:

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..... but the rest of the car seemed cheap and really left me wanting more.

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Thats so true of many cars in this segment.


In answer to the question of if there is anything I do like about Toyotas and such..

its that unlike GM, when they do have something that needs fixing, they tend to fix it. GM seems to try denial first, and when that fails, let the accounting department attempt "cost effective" half hearted attempts.

Both the 60 degree and 3800 intake leaks were very easy to fix, but the CPAs choose to stonewall.

 

[LTVibe]

quote:

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Originally posted by speedtc:
Hyundai and kia have passed the cobalt in overall quality and value.

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Now if they could just improve the quality of their CEO's!

Hyundai-Kia Unit CEO Arrested

 

[lght1]

Hi

However, that being said, there is nothing that I have seen about Toyota or Honda that I would want one.

I drive a boatload of miles over a significant percentage of roads that are near third world in nature and I just dont think they hold up to that kind of use/abuse.

Although I dont think Toy and Hon are junk, I do think I am better served by what has given me 250,000 miles plus of service from each vehicle i have purchased since 1990.

I have had nothing since 3800s since then, with the '95 Olds being the first Series II with the infamous composite UIM.

As I mentioned before, the cure, of which there are several, one of which only costs about $35.00, is mechanically very simple and not particularly expensive.

Many stealerships often quote huge flatrate dollars for a job that could be done for about $240 labor. This includes the LIM gaskets.

My parts cost for the the retrofitting last year was
1. $150.00 for the L26 Alum UIM and TB adapter.
2. $ 40.00 for the FelPro LIM gaskets.
3. $5.00 for the plastic coolant elbow
4. $15.00 for G-05 coolant.

So, for $210 and my time, I have an engine that is capable 250-300,000 miles, good power and quite nice economy.

All in all, this should have been done at the factory for mere pocket change. Infact, begining with 2004, the 3800 now has the aluminum UIM and is called the Series III.

I, have infact, made a Series III.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Although I dont think Toy and Hon are junk, I do think I am better served by what has given me 250,000 miles plus of service from each vehicle i have purchased since 1990.

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And honestly, in the end, there's not much one can say when a car has 250k on it. Of course, with things shaping up as they are, I'm pretty confident my G will go the distance too. We'll have to re-engage on this in about four years. Of course, at that point, you and T-K will be bragging about your 500k 3800s and gleefully pointing out that I've got only a quarter million on mine.

 

[lght1]

Hi

Actually, I was considering waiting for the Semi-Hybrid Malibu in late fall '07 or maybe going with the Hybrid Saturn Aura out spring '08.

Several techs at the Pontiac place say I should just drive the Olds just to see how long she will last, especially the tranny.

If I did that, I would have to refinish the paint, and I really would hate to spend those $$ on a ten yr old car no matter how good she ran or the interior was.

Perhaps a 2.4 ECOTECH G6 ?

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by lght1:
(...snip...)Both the 60 degree and 3800 intake leaks were very easy to fix, but the CPAs choose to stonewall.

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This is at the core of what I find so baffling and troubling about GM. It's a big part of how they undercut the trust I've felt for them in the past. In stark contrast, look at what's just happened to Toyota. Very recently, they released an all-new version of the Camry, the 2007 model. Sure enough, despite their quality efforts, a manufacturing issue has arisen in the 6-spd auto installed in V-6 models. Toyota pounced on this, fessing up, fixing the problem after only 600 vehicles "escaped," and initiated an aggressive effort to take care of the customers who got those cars. Affected customers get a loaner or rental until their car is fixed, Toyota makes their car payments until the car is returned, and on ToyotaNation, a couple have reported that they were given a free 100k extended warranty for their trouble (list "retail" price = ~$1400). It's a shame to think about how many more loyal customers GM might have if they'd made even a fraction of this sort of effort with respect to the V-6s and their breathing hardware.

Lght, the thinking you describe is very similar to that which resulted in Ford producing a fleet of explosive Pintos. If the US auto industry ever does actually collapse (I don't think it will), it will be largely because of that sort of thought process. IMO, of course.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

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Although I dont think Toy and Hon are junk, I do think I am better served by what has given me 250,000 miles plus of service from each vehicle i have purchased since 1990.

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And honestly, in the end, there's not much one can say when a car has 250k on it. Of course, with things shaping up as they are, I'm pretty confident my G will go the distance too. We'll have to re-engage on this in about four years. Of course, at that point, you and T-K will be bragging about your 500k 3800s and gleefully pointing out that I've got only a quarter million on mine.

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Perhaps.

Still think it's funny you're comparing your $25k+ infiniti to my $450 Buick.

This car(like most of my previous GM cars) has been good to me. Nothing but maintenance in the 36k I've put on it so far. Plus maintenance parts are cheaper then Infiniti parts will ever be. $18 for pads, $16 for rotors, $6 air filters, $65 tires, ect. I hope I can keep her for a while.

-T

 

[lght1]

Hi

Well..when that Series I is done, find a nice Series II H or W body.

The EGR chimney problem is so easy to fix.