Dual clutch transmission fluids - so few options

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Let's brush aside the GL4 rating as it is not germaine to the topic.

Fair enough, but I wasn't sure.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I think you are asking about the wet-clutch DCT's as well?

Well, primarily wet-clutch DCT fluid as used by Nissan (GT-R), Porsche, Mitsubishi and VW-Audi.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The wet-clutch DCT's would have an additive package and base oil combination similar to the Redline D6.

As far as using D6 as a replacement fluid in a wet-clutch DCT, you would have to ask Dave at Redline.

I did ask Dave this question maybe a year ago but all I recall was that they did not have a suitable fill. I was pretty sure D4 or D6 should be able to handle it but wasn't sure about the specific requirements of the wet-clutches.

Anyway, I really appreciate your insight and contributions here. Many thanks!

 

[wemay]

Pentosin FFL-2 (SSP GOLD) is what all the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo and Ralliart enthusiat have been using since 2009 (or factory Dia-Queen fluid which is Castrol BOT 341 [not sold in U.S.]). I have been using the FFL-2 for 15k miles without issue and its much cheaper than going to dealer for their fluid/change. Pentosin makes a replacement fluid for: GT-R, 911 and M3 as well as multiple other DCT equipped vehicles.

 

[Whitewolf]

I can tell you that FFL-2 is indeed the VW fluid.

KV 100C 7.3 cSt
DV -40C 12100 mPas
VI 224
Viscosity loss after 20 hour KRL 6.76%
Evaporation loss 1 hour @ 200C is 2%

This is according to Pentosin data.

 

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
I can tell you that FFL-2 is indeed the VW fluid.

KV 100C 7.3 cSt
DV -40C 12100 mPas
VI 224
Viscosity loss after 20 hour KRL 6.76%
Evaporation loss 1 hour @ 200C is 2%

This is according to Pentosin data.


Here's a bit more.

FFL-2
FZG A/8.3/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/120 = 9
FZG A/10/16.6R/120 = 6

FFL-4
FZG A/8.3/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/120 = 12
FZG A/10/16.6R/120 = 7/8

FFL-2 Plus Plus
FZG A/8.3/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/120 = 12
FZG A/10/16.6R/120 = 9/10

If you've got any questions, let me know.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
FFL-2
FZG A/8.3/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/120 = 9
FZG A/10/16.6R/120 = 6

FFL-4
FZG A/8.3/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/120 = 12
FZG A/10/16.6R/120 = 7/8

FFL-2 Plus Plus
FZG A/8.3/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/90 = 12
FZG A/16.6/120 = 12
FZG A/10/16.6R/120 = 9/10


Can you elaborate on what these values represent and the tangible differences between these fluids?

 

[martinq]

From what I have found, the first two tests are operated at a temperature of 90C, the second two at 120C. The last test should be listed as "FZG A10/16.6R/120" without the slash after the 'A'.

I also found this:


Scuffing load stage FZG test: input scuffing load stage as specified in the FZG test.
1= weakest level; 12=best level
Good gear lubricants all have scuffing load level 12.


ZG A10/16.6R/120
A more severe version of the ASTM D5182 Load Stage Wear test. This test requires A10 gears (half the tooth width of the A gears), and is run at 2880 rpm in reverse mode.


My next question is, where does FFL-2 Plus Plus get used? I'm guessing it's an upcoming application as I can't find a listing on it at Pentosin or elsewhere.

 

[Whitewolf]

Bugatti.

I don't know what in but it is in a July 2011 Pentosin presentation.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Bugatti.

So ... the chances of getting some for a reasonable sum are? Any links or hints where to find the presentation online?

 

[martinq]

Here is a presentation with an excellent set of pictures and charts regarding FZG Testing:

Testmethods for Lubricant Related Influences on the Gear Load Capacity
Lubricants Russia 2006, 2nd international conference
G. Steinberger
http://www.eng.rpi-inc.ru/materials/26/neo364/DAY2/SESSION5/FZG.pdf