I have a 1997 Ford F150 with drum brakes on rear. I'm contemplating replacing the drums with disk conversion kits. Is this a task that should be done by a professional or can a fairly handy do it yourselfer accomplish this safely. Any help, advice, procedural tips would be greatly appreciated.
Drum to Disk conversion
- Thread starter Roscoe10
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What is your mechanical ability? I did a conversion on a friends vehicle 2 summers ago and it was easy.
If you are set on doing it yourself, I would find a boneyard truck with your rear axle (either 8.8 or Visteon) with disks already on it. Then you wouldn't have to worry about caliper mounts and you would get all the goodies along with it. You may need to get the proportioning valve as well. Also, plug your truck into the Advance auto website and compare master cylinder part numbers with a disk truck.
What's the point?
Drum brakes work well enough... and they're generally rock-solid reliable. Can't say the same for rear disc brakes IF there's a parking brake incorporated into the caliper (and I don't know if that's the case on your vehicle or not).
Drum brakes work well enough... and they're generally rock-solid reliable. Can't say the same for rear disc brakes IF there's a parking brake incorporated into the caliper (and I don't know if that's the case on your vehicle or not).
Originally Posted By: onion
What's the point?
Drum brakes work well enough... and they're generally rock-solid reliable. Can't say the same for rear disc brakes IF there's a parking brake incorporated into the caliper (and I don't know if that's the case on your vehicle or not).
The trucks use a drum in hat style e-brake.
Physically it is not a difficult job at all, just takes time.
What's the point?
Drum brakes work well enough... and they're generally rock-solid reliable. Can't say the same for rear disc brakes IF there's a parking brake incorporated into the caliper (and I don't know if that's the case on your vehicle or not).
The trucks use a drum in hat style e-brake.
Physically it is not a difficult job at all, just takes time.
Look for a '99-'03 ('04 Heritage) rear axle that's complete from disc to disc. Even newer ones may work, I'm just not sure if the dimensions are the same on the newer body style. That should be a pretty straight forward swap.
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if you have to rework the break tubing, be sure you make double flair on the tubing, of course its steel break line tubing. AND be sure to put anti-seize compound on all threads, and the break line nut.
Unless you need precise brake modulation for racing, leave the stock drum system on there.
If it is worn out, then maybe an upgrade is OK.
But the master cyl, the proportioning valve, all sorts of hubs, mounts, calipers, lines etc need to be obtained and put on with a conversion.
I am strongly against doing this.
If it is worn out, then maybe an upgrade is OK.
But the master cyl, the proportioning valve, all sorts of hubs, mounts, calipers, lines etc need to be obtained and put on with a conversion.
I am strongly against doing this.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I agree with the other poster...why would you need to do this conversion?
The drums have been turned beyonds their limits and are due for replacement. I just thought this might be an interesting project. Also, I tow a light utility trailer carrying a polaris ranger and the braking ability is not what it ought to be. Was hoping the disk might provide better stopping performance. Although, this might be a misinformed conclusion. You guys have provided invaluable information on the conversion, but what about stopping performance. Will it be better, worse or about the same. Understanding this will determine whether or not I go forward with the conversation. Would appreciate input from those who have experience and are willing to contribute their objective evaluation regarding results achieved.
I agree with the other poster...why would you need to do this conversion?
The drums have been turned beyonds their limits and are due for replacement. I just thought this might be an interesting project. Also, I tow a light utility trailer carrying a polaris ranger and the braking ability is not what it ought to be. Was hoping the disk might provide better stopping performance. Although, this might be a misinformed conclusion. You guys have provided invaluable information on the conversion, but what about stopping performance. Will it be better, worse or about the same. Understanding this will determine whether or not I go forward with the conversation. Would appreciate input from those who have experience and are willing to contribute their objective evaluation regarding results achieved.
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If you are really going to hammer the brakes repeatedly with heavy loads, discs are better [way better] for brake fade.
Stopping power? Could actually go either way, but discs should be be better. But so what? Locking the rear brakes is easy either way.
It is fade that is your concern with real heavy use.
Once again, this is a real project, with lots of potential problems and pitfalls. Costs could be high also.
Stopping power? Could actually go either way, but discs should be be better. But so what? Locking the rear brakes is easy either way.
It is fade that is your concern with real heavy use.
Once again, this is a real project, with lots of potential problems and pitfalls. Costs could be high also.
Originally Posted By: Roscoe10
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I agree with the other poster...why would you need to do this conversion?
The drums have been turned beyonds their limits and are due for replacement. I just thought this might be an interesting project. Also, I tow a light utility trailer carrying a polaris ranger and the braking ability is not what it ought to be. Was hoping the disk might provide better stopping performance. Although, this might be a misinformed conclusion. You guys have provided invaluable information on the conversion, but what about stopping performance. Will it be better, worse or about the same. Understanding this will determine whether or not I go forward with the conversation. Would appreciate input from those who have experience and are willing to contribute their objective evaluation regarding results achieved.
I think any real world improvements will be barely noticeable without major aftermarket upgrades. You are probably better off just replacing the worn shoes and drums with new ones. I have stock 10" drums on my Ranger, and even when towing they have never been a problem. The truck has towed lots of ATVs, including 4WDs and multiple ATVs at once.
A good time to upgrade brakes will be when the diff goes out, whenever that is (might be a while). If the brakes are just worn, it will be cheaper and easier to just replace the wear parts.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I agree with the other poster...why would you need to do this conversion?
The drums have been turned beyonds their limits and are due for replacement. I just thought this might be an interesting project. Also, I tow a light utility trailer carrying a polaris ranger and the braking ability is not what it ought to be. Was hoping the disk might provide better stopping performance. Although, this might be a misinformed conclusion. You guys have provided invaluable information on the conversion, but what about stopping performance. Will it be better, worse or about the same. Understanding this will determine whether or not I go forward with the conversation. Would appreciate input from those who have experience and are willing to contribute their objective evaluation regarding results achieved.
I think any real world improvements will be barely noticeable without major aftermarket upgrades. You are probably better off just replacing the worn shoes and drums with new ones. I have stock 10" drums on my Ranger, and even when towing they have never been a problem. The truck has towed lots of ATVs, including 4WDs and multiple ATVs at once.
A good time to upgrade brakes will be when the diff goes out, whenever that is (might be a while). If the brakes are just worn, it will be cheaper and easier to just replace the wear parts.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Roscoe10
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I agree with the other poster...why would you need to do this conversion?
The drums have been turned beyonds their limits and are due for replacement. I just thought this might be an interesting project. Also, I tow a light utility trailer carrying a polaris ranger and the braking ability is not what it ought to be. Was hoping the disk might provide better stopping performance. Although, this might be a misinformed conclusion. You guys have provided invaluable information on the conversion, but what about stopping performance. Will it be better, worse or about the same. Understanding this will determine whether or not I go forward with the conversation. Would appreciate input from those who have experience and are willing to contribute their objective evaluation regarding results achieved.
I think any real world improvements will be barely noticeable without major aftermarket upgrades. You are probably better off just replacing the worn shoes and drums with new ones. I have stock 10" drums on my Ranger, and even when towing they have never been a problem. The truck has towed lots of ATVs, including 4WDs and multiple ATVs at once.
A good time to upgrade brakes will be when the diff goes out, whenever that is (might be a while). If the brakes are just worn, it will be cheaper and easier to just replace the wear parts.
Agreed. You can replace the drums and upgrade the shoes for very little cost and that alone will increase your breaking performance. The disc brake may perform better in wet conditions, but then you're usually driving slower in the wet, too. Not to mention, I am not sure how the braking balance would be after a disc brake conversion because the current system is balanced (thru the proportional valve, etc) for drums. The disc setup may prematurely lock up. I may be wrong, just thinking out loud. Now, if you buy a specific "kit" it probably takes all this into consideration, but they are costly.
Originally Posted By: Roscoe10
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I agree with the other poster...why would you need to do this conversion?
The drums have been turned beyonds their limits and are due for replacement. I just thought this might be an interesting project. Also, I tow a light utility trailer carrying a polaris ranger and the braking ability is not what it ought to be. Was hoping the disk might provide better stopping performance. Although, this might be a misinformed conclusion. You guys have provided invaluable information on the conversion, but what about stopping performance. Will it be better, worse or about the same. Understanding this will determine whether or not I go forward with the conversation. Would appreciate input from those who have experience and are willing to contribute their objective evaluation regarding results achieved.
I think any real world improvements will be barely noticeable without major aftermarket upgrades. You are probably better off just replacing the worn shoes and drums with new ones. I have stock 10" drums on my Ranger, and even when towing they have never been a problem. The truck has towed lots of ATVs, including 4WDs and multiple ATVs at once.
A good time to upgrade brakes will be when the diff goes out, whenever that is (might be a while). If the brakes are just worn, it will be cheaper and easier to just replace the wear parts.
Agreed. You can replace the drums and upgrade the shoes for very little cost and that alone will increase your breaking performance. The disc brake may perform better in wet conditions, but then you're usually driving slower in the wet, too. Not to mention, I am not sure how the braking balance would be after a disc brake conversion because the current system is balanced (thru the proportional valve, etc) for drums. The disc setup may prematurely lock up. I may be wrong, just thinking out loud. Now, if you buy a specific "kit" it probably takes all this into consideration, but they are costly.
Assuming the drum system was reasonably designed, it should offer plenty of stopping power. Not all rear disk setups will outperform drums...often times they are used as a marketing point, and nothing else. Also, I've seen countless seized rear calipers and faulty parking brake mechanisms on rear disk setups that I'm leery of them unless they offer better braking...which as I've just said, isn't always guaranteed. (wheel cylinders aren't the most reliable things either, but they are cheap to replace...and they rarely seize...they typically start to weep at the seals before anything).
Also, overheating the rear brakes is typically not something a daily driver would be concerned wit, and I'd be skeptical about any performance improvement by going to disks unless they were quantified. A good drum has a good deal of thermal mass, and a rather large amount of braking area (more so then disks). This means they typically generate more braking force. Its only in the area of heat dissipation that they fall down to vented disk setups...but as I said, drums do offer lots of thermal mass. for example, if you are going down a hill, the drum should offer enough thermal capacity to make the descent without incident. If you are constantly pounding on the brakes in a racing environment...well, that's a different story. But you could easily face the same issues with a rear disk if it wasn't properly sized...compare the size and the overall mass to the drum, a tiny rear disk would actually be worse then a good sized drum. And like has been mentioned in this thread...the majority of the braking is performed by the front, so thermal loading on the rear is mostly a non issue.
Also, overheating the rear brakes is typically not something a daily driver would be concerned wit, and I'd be skeptical about any performance improvement by going to disks unless they were quantified. A good drum has a good deal of thermal mass, and a rather large amount of braking area (more so then disks). This means they typically generate more braking force. Its only in the area of heat dissipation that they fall down to vented disk setups...but as I said, drums do offer lots of thermal mass. for example, if you are going down a hill, the drum should offer enough thermal capacity to make the descent without incident. If you are constantly pounding on the brakes in a racing environment...well, that's a different story. But you could easily face the same issues with a rear disk if it wasn't properly sized...compare the size and the overall mass to the drum, a tiny rear disk would actually be worse then a good sized drum. And like has been mentioned in this thread...the majority of the braking is performed by the front, so thermal loading on the rear is mostly a non issue.
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some swaps are pretty easy, some can be a nuisance with the details. Subarus, for instance, used to size the rear drums vs discs equally in terms of fluid pressure/volume to brake force-- so you could do the swap without any change in proportioning valve. BUT, you had to swap e-brake cables because the setup was different. Other vehicles can require different proportioning valving.
One gamble is the ABS and whether or not a different tune might be needed for the rear if different fluid volumes are involved-- the above post re: master cylinder would shed some light on that.
Dollar for psi, drums are actually more powerful for a given fluid pressure&volume. Remember when a 4,000 car could be stopped by grandma with a single-circuit 4-wheel drum braking? Granted, the proportioning wasn't even present in the '50's but it was easier to stop a 195x chevy with manual brakes than an 80-something escort with the engine off.
Discs wipe water off better in the wet stuff, and they are easier to modulate in a performance application, and they cool better. But for massive braking, drums win.
In your case, if you do some homework with folks that know the systems, or go yank the parts yourself and see if they fit, I'm sure it's possible.
M
One gamble is the ABS and whether or not a different tune might be needed for the rear if different fluid volumes are involved-- the above post re: master cylinder would shed some light on that.
Dollar for psi, drums are actually more powerful for a given fluid pressure&volume. Remember when a 4,000 car could be stopped by grandma with a single-circuit 4-wheel drum braking? Granted, the proportioning wasn't even present in the '50's but it was easier to stop a 195x chevy with manual brakes than an 80-something escort with the engine off.
Discs wipe water off better in the wet stuff, and they are easier to modulate in a performance application, and they cool better. But for massive braking, drums win.
In your case, if you do some homework with folks that know the systems, or go yank the parts yourself and see if they fit, I'm sure it's possible.
M
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