Driving technique and its impact on pad deposits/"warped" rotors

[TiGeo]

I got Stoptech 309s on the front of my XJ got it before first brands killed the 309s. Some cheap centrics that been through mud and back but never had any brake vibrations. Even did some "pace" laps at PBIR with them haha

I bought that XJ new in 2000. In the ~16K miles I had it in heavy-traffic Northern VA commuting, I had 3 sets of pads all covered by the warranty.

 

[TiGeo]

I learned this from a YouTube video a guy did on his BMW. He sanded the rotors very aggressively with a disc sander. I did the same and thought I might have damaged the rotors. But after rebedding it braked great.

I was going to do this but again, rotors are free at this point so screw it, just replace. Maybe next time I'll just give them a re-surface.

 

[Capt W]

Car wash while brakes are hot will warp rotors.

Absolutely a myth. Cast iron requires at least 1800 degrees F to alter shape or deform. And said alteration would be temporary. If a cold-water quenching were to have any effect whatsoever, it would likely be in the form of outright breakage or cracking. This is basic metallurgy.

https://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/what-causes-brake-rotor-warp-debunking-the-myth/

 

[edyvw]

My wife drives the Tig like your wife the Atlas. I do take it out after a few days and do a re-bed, then some hard braking. Done this since we were married and haven't had brake issues on any of her vehicles. Modern VW pads are an interesting amalgam of material though. They seem to be primarily ceramic because lower dust (except on more performance oriented models, ie; GTI, R etc.) but still stop pretty well (semi-met in the mix) and are quiet. For me and the way I use my brakes (aka HARD)? Zimmerman rotors with higher carbon content and Pagid/Ate semi-metallics. And wash the wheels every 4 hours .

It is not the pad, same like it is not with Toyota and Honda. It is el cheapo rotors.
Atlas has very aggressive pads. I liked them a lot. But, when I bought ATE rotors, they were definitely darker in color. When it comes to brakes, for me, ATE is the first choice, regardless of whether it's the pad or the rotor.

 

[E150GT]

I brake like I brake. I worry more about making sure the lug nuts are torqued evenly after I or anyone else removes the wheels. Don't ride the brakes.

 

[shortyb]

It is not the pad, same like it is not with Toyota and Honda. It is el cheapo rotors.
Atlas has very aggressive pads. I liked them a lot. But, when I bought ATE rotors, they were definitely darker in color. When it comes to brakes, for me, ATE is the first choice, regardless of whether it's the pad or the rotor.

Tiguan's rotors, calipers, and pads are all stamped Ate. All have an associated VW, VAG, or 4 rings logo as well. I'm a big fan of Ate too.

 

[rijndael]

Absolutely a myth. Cast iron requires at least 1800 degrees F to alter shape or deform.

There's more to this whan what you 'myth busters' keep posting. Cast iron pans warp. So do cast iron brake drums, they do get out of round with excessive heat. I just replaced a drum that was no longer round, it happened after shoe hardware piece broke.

It is not the pad, same like it is not with Toyota and Honda. It is el cheapo rotors.

Agreed. Hondas are pretty prone to it too. Here's a decent video showing Honda rotor hat warpage, with dial indicator measurements:

 

[edyvw]

Tiguan's rotors, calipers, and pads are all stamped Ate. All have an associated VW, VAG, or 4 rings logo as well. I'm a big fan of Ate too.

Older Tiguan, yes. 1st gen. I think current generation rotors are Brembo, and pads are ZF, I think.
Pads on Atlas are none issue. They are ZF (TRW) and very aggressive. I used old pads (only had 6,000mls) with ATE rotors, and did not have an issue for 25k, until I sold the vehicle.

 

[edyvw]

There's more to this whan what you 'myth busters' keep posting. Cast iron pans warp. So do cast iron brake drums, they do get out of round with excessive heat. I just replaced a drum that was no longer round, it happened after shoe hardware piece broke.




Agreed. Hondas are pretty prone to it too. Here's a decent video showing Honda rotor hat warpage, with dial indicator measurements:

Pilot we have in addition has small rotors and does not have cooling vanes to evacuate heat outside of the rotor.

 

[CarlB]

Absolutely a myth. Cast iron requires at least 1800 degrees F to alter shape or deform. And said alteration would be temporary. If a cold-water quenching were to have any effect whatsoever, it would likely be in the form of outright breakage or cracking. This is basic metallurgy.

View attachment 274483

https://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/what-causes-brake-rotor-warp-debunking-the-myth/

Our brake cooling ducts will crack/split a rotor on track if we hit a severe puddle. We tape our ducts for rain events now.

 

[Chris142]

The original rotors on my jeep were garbage. I had them turned @5000 miles then they warped,uneven thickness whatever you want to believe @11k.
I replaced them and the pads with AutoZone gold and those lasted 90k with no shakes. Did a pad slap with Napa pads@101 and ran those till about 180k.

Scored a set of OEM rotors from a friend and put those on with more AutoZone gold pads. Currantly @206k with no shaking when stopping

 

[Stumpalump]

Brakes always lasts over 100,000 miles and I drive a lot and tow. I probably put 40,000 miles a year on a company car that I beat the living **** out of and the brakes still last over 100k. This is why….If going down hill I stab breaks to knock off 10mph then get off breaks. Rinse and repete. After coming to a long stop like on an interstate exit ramp always stop short and let the vehicle creep so the hot pads are not sitting in the same place on the hot rotor as you wait for a light. I actually do this after almost every stop. In wet conditions try to never let the brakes get hot because cold water on hot rotors cracks and warps them. Those tiny cracks chew up pads. If you think you are a good driver, but have not been to a driving school then yes you are just another sucky driver that thinks they know how to drive. That is the main cause that you go through brakes. Look 15 seconds ahead and review these principles until they are all second nature. It may save your life and defiantly will save your breaks.
https://drivedifferent.com/smith5keys/

 

[930.engineering]

I do not - the rotors are cheap enough but I don't get how if runout is an issue how it isn't an issue right off the bat? I'll admit ignorance here on this. So this would be the hub runout correct? Certainly could be and I can get the gauge to test.

You might have read this paper.
.

 

[PontiacHO]

Absolutely a myth. Cast iron requires at least 1800 degrees F to alter shape or deform. And said alteration would be temporary. If a cold-water quenching were to have any effect whatsoever, it would likely be in the form of outright breakage or cracking. This is basic metallurgy.

View attachment 274483

https://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/what-causes-brake-rotor-warp-debunking-the-myth/

Of course Rick is the voice of all things automotive. My experience comes from the 1100 plus first responder vehicles my techs were responsible for. Running through the car wash without letting vehicle cool from normal runs (especially in the summer) would result in pulsating brakes. The shift commanders had to constantly remind troops that to ensure less vehicle downtime. Go ask Rick if that’s a myth….

 

[rijndael]

You might have read this paper.
.

The context of this re-posted article is covered in the video I posted at 15:00.

 

[930.engineering]

Tiguan's rotors, calipers, and pads are all stamped Ate. All have an associated VW, VAG, or 4 rings logo as well. I'm a big fan of Ate too.

Tiguan Mk.1 I guess. Very most if not all MQB cars (Tiguan Mk.2) use to use
TRW calipers on front and Ate calipers on rear. So TRW and Ate deliver the
caliper to the factory including the pads. BUT: This does NOT mean these
pads are TRW or Ate made. In fact TRW (ZF) and Ate (Continental) are just
"system suppliers". The car manufacturer may decide for a different supplier's
compound (from dozens of suitable compounds). You might read three things
on the pad's backing plate among other things:

• VW AG (or Audi/four rings)
• TRW (or Ate)
• the true manufacturer of the pad (or/and its compound code FER1234, PA5678, GA9012, T3456)

FER refers to Ferodo, PA for Pagid, T for Textar, GA for Galfer to name the most
common. Not sure with Jurid. I guess Jurid made ones say Jurid XY, but it doesn't
matter.
Just very few pads are Ate (or Brembo) made when it comes to VW, Audi, BMW
or Porsche.

Older Tiguan, yes. 1st gen. I think current generation rotors are Brembo, and pads are ZF, I think.
Pads on Atlas are none issue. They are ZF (TRW) and very aggressive. I used old pads (only had 6,000mls) with ATE rotors, and did not have an issue for 25k, until I sold the vehicle.

I've never seen any TRW or Brembo pad on any Audi, BMW or Porsche despite they
all use Brembo calipers. Yes, I've seen likes this: Audi, Brembo and Pagid on the pad.
See above.
We're off track here. I still suspect installation issues. I'm sure Tigeo is conscientious
when it comes to cars, but you should never foreclose little blemishes with annoying
results. Get a gauge first. Better knowing before guessing.
.

 

[930.engineering]

One typical example (MQB/Mk.7 rear axle, so with Ate caliper):

Indisputably Galfer made (in Italy). That "Ate" might be somewhat misleading to the public.

That said, most VW, Audi and Porsche (and some BMW, at least) rotors are made from SHW.
My Porsche's rotors are SHW made (and Brembo made calipers) and so are my GTI's rotors.
Both genuine Porsche and VW respectively (still factory).

https://www.shw.de/de/bereiche/bremsscheiben/
https://www.shwperformance.com/

 

[TiGeo]

You might have read this paper.
.

Will review. Thx.

 

[edyvw]

Tiguan Mk.1 I guess. Very most if not all MQB cars (Tiguan Mk.2) use to use
TRW calipers on front and Ate calipers on rear. So TRW and Ate deliver the
caliper to the factory including the pads. BUT: This does NOT mean these
pads are TRW or Ate made. In fact TRW (ZF) and Ate (Continental) are just
"system suppliers". The car manufacturer may decide for a different supplier's
compound (from dozens of suitable compounds). You might read three things
on the pad's backing plate among other things:

• VW AG (or Audi/four rings)
• TRW (or Ate)
• the true manufacturer of the pad (or/and its compound code FER1234, PA5678, GA9012, T3456)

FER refers to Ferodo, PA for Pagid, T for Textar, GA for Galfer to name the most
common. Not sure with Jurid. I guess Jurid made ones say Jurid XY, but it doesn't
matter.
Just very few pads are Ate (or Brembo) made when it comes to VW, Audi, BMW
or Porsche.




I've never seen any TRW or Brembo pad on any Audi, BMW or Porsche despite they
all use Brembo calipers. Yes, I've seen likes this: Audi, Brembo and Pagid on the pad.
See above.
We're off track here. I still suspect installation issues. I'm sure Tigeo is conscientious
when it comes to cars, but you should never foreclose little blemishes with annoying
results. Get a gauge first. Better knowing before guessing.
.

Yep, on Atlas OE are Brembo. Engraved on rotors!
I changed them twice, until I put ATE. Problem solved.

 

[shortyb]

Tiguan Mk.1 I guess. Very most if not all MQB cars (Tiguan Mk.2) use to use
TRW calipers on front and Ate calipers on rear. So TRW and Ate deliver the
caliper to the factory including the pads. BUT: This does NOT mean these
pads are TRW or Ate made. In fact TRW (ZF) and Ate (Continental) are just
"system suppliers". The car manufacturer may decide for a different supplier's
compound (from dozens of suitable compounds). You might read three things
on the pad's backing plate among other things:

• VW AG (or Audi/four rings)
• TRW (or Ate)
• the true manufacturer of the pad (or/and its compound code FER1234, PA5678, GA9012, T3456)

FER refers to Ferodo, PA for Pagid, T for Textar, GA for Galfer to name the most
common. Not sure with Jurid. I guess Jurid made ones say Jurid XY, but it doesn't
matter.
Just very few pads are Ate (or Brembo) made when it comes to VW, Audi, BMW
or Porsche.




I've never seen any TRW or Brembo pad on any Audi, BMW or Porsche despite they
all use Brembo calipers. Yes, I've seen likes this: Audi, Brembo and Pagid on the pad.
See above.
We're off track here. I still suspect installation issues. I'm sure Tigeo is conscientious
when it comes to cars, but you should never foreclose little blemishes with annoying
results. Get a gauge first. Better knowing before guessing.
.

I'm going further off track because you had me second guessing myself. Yep, front calipers on my 2020 Tiguan MQB are indeed TRW. However the pads are marked VW AG, but are Jurid compounds (says "Jurid" on the backing plate) Other info is covered by the caliper. Rears are marked Ate as well as the pads with GA prefix on the compound number. Next time I have the wheel off, will look for the logo on the rotors, but am pretty certain I saw the scripted Ate logo.

Again, no matter as most of the big players are under one company's family umbrella or another and may manufacture several different brake components under different names. The OE pads from the dealer I put on the GLI rear recently were marked Textar and Nisshinbo along with VW AG. Nisshinbo bought TMD Friction Group which also manufactured Textar, Pagid, Mintex, and Bendix. Now it is owned by AEQUITA and they still have the same TMD Friction company names. This all means as @930.engineering said, the pads could be marked as one name, Ate for example, but have friction material from another brand name under the same family company. So my Textar/Nissinbo marked VW AG logo could actually be Pagids .