One thing I've noted over multiple vehicles and many years is this....long/soft/"easy" braking is far worse for brakes than short/hard/"abrupt" braking. Now I realize that option 1 is a much more normal way to brake and drive and also won't agitate your passengers/make them sick đŸ¤£ but #2 seem to be the best for minimizing heat and pad deposits that lead to pulsating brakes from high-speed slow downs commonly called by many..."warped rotors" (not really warped). All of our larger/heavier family haulers over the last 20 years have been driven my wife. She is an excellent driver and v. smooth. These vehicles have all been operated primiarly around-town so mostly stop/go short distance lots of stops. I note that I had to replace the brakes on her vehicles regularly (rotors) as they all seem to develop the pulsating deposits in ~20-30K which for her is about 3 years. Our Atlas is at 45K/5 years old and I've done the rotors twice. Multiple high-quality brands so that isn't an issue...it just seems to be a thing. My vehicles never have this issue but I basically drive like I'm on a race track haha. What have your experiences with this been? She doesn't do anything wrong, just larger heavier vehicles with lots of braking and lighter longer use of the brakes seems to heat them up and when she sits at a stop light the pads against the rotors you get this issue. I've tired repeatedly re-bedding them but I find it never sorts it. Thank goodness for FCP Euro's Lifetime Replacement! I will say that I did actually have this issue on one vehicle...my new '00 XJ Cherokee...I was living outside of D.C. at the time and went through multiple sets of f. rotors in the first 2 years that were always handled by warranty but that vehicle was 100% stop/go commuting up there.
Driving technique and its impact on pad deposits/"warped" rotors
- Thread starter TiGeo
- Start date
Yes that's why a slightly draggy brake often can be recognised by deposits on the disc
I wonder if holding the brakes down after stopping contributes to this. The rotors are warm and need to radiate heat. The portion of the rotor in contact with the pads can't radiate as well as the rest of the rotor. This would be more of an issue with automatic trannys since (1) they require more braking since there is less engine braking (put differently, with a manual some of the energy of motion is converted into heat by the engine, so the brakes get relatively less heat), and (2) automatics require you to hold the pedal down to remain stopped, while in a manual you can usually release the brake while stopped (so long as you aren't on a hill).
PS: I find that doing most of the braking early, then progressively lighter as you go slower, is both safer and easier on the brakes because you give them more time for the initial heat to dissipate (while the wheel is rotating and has airflow over it). Many people do the opposite: light or no early braking, then progressively harder braking as they come to a stop, where there's no airflow to help the brakes radiate.
PPS: I also find that brakes (pads & rotors) seem to last at least twice as long on manual tranny cars, compared to automatics.
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For normal driving, no.
If the rotors and pads are heated up from aggressive driving, then yes.
Just go refer to the Carroll Smith whitepaper.
100% is what causes this as far as I understand it. The track is an extreme case but when you come in from a session, you never use your parking brake and try to not stop/hold the brakes until they are cool or they can actually adhere to the rotors!
The auto vs. manual thing is real for sure. 125K on my Focus which is a manual and original front rotors until a few weeks ago. Pads changed once. R. rotors changed once.
DSG should behave just like a manual though
That's an interesting observation. I tend to brake more like your wife but have never experienced pulsating brakes on any of my vehicles.
This technical paper has a lot of good info on brakes. I always use the break-in procedures described here.
This technical paper has a lot of good info on brakes. I always use the break-in procedures described here.
Was going to add exactly this - I think this is a significant factor overlooked by many.
All it takes is one hard stop and staying hard on the pedal at that red light and the cycle of deposits starts at that point. An "enthusiast" might have more mechanical sympathy for their vehicle and think of these sorts of things compared to an "appliance driver". Note that I'm not calling out quality or competence of piloting a vehicle or any kind of gender alignment - just whether you're mechanically in tune with your equipment compared to simply needing to get to your destination without giving it a second thought.
Any time I've mentioned being aware of when the brakes must be really hot to other people in a vehicle I get weird looks from everyone except fellow enthusiasts. When I'm behind the wheel I'll creep forward or roll back if at all possible in a hot-brake-stop situation.
Disagree, long/soft/easy braking, is letting a lot of the vehicle's momentum energy be dissipated by drag, aerodynamic, drivetrain, wheels, etc, so less energy is dissipated in the brake rotor, over a longer period of time so that it does not get as hot... assuming you don't ride the brakes, are using them properly.
Short/hard/abrupt heats them up far more, and leaves more deposits behind momentarily. However, it can also scrub off deposits, but will wear the pads and rotors faster and more unevenly so with the irregular contact patch, all the more the reduced regions of contact, heat up more.
I once had a vehicle that would develop the deposits no matter what, because full sized vehicle with little 14" wheels and so rotors were smaller still to fit wthin the rim, plus the engine had low end torque and gearing that made it pull like a train during the final moments of braking. That was a... hmm... lemme think... '89 Buick Lesabre 3.8L, might have the year wrong on that as it's been a while.
Since then, no such brake issues from easy braking on newer vehicles. I suspect the difference you are seeing is only because you are comparing miles driven instead of # of stops made, or it's just that some vehicles have better brakes than others, whether that be due to rotor diameter vs vehicle weight, or # of caliper pistons. It could also be that she drives differently when you or other passengers aren't in the vehicle with her.
I know I drive more aggressively with no passengers, but still go relatively easy on the brakes.It does but you have to hold the brake or it will move just like any other auto. Brake is also the clutch pedal effectively.
I always drive like your wife (some might say, "grandma"), haven't had pulsating brakes in years (probably last decade on third car previous to current one).
I do avoid braking whenever possible (so on the freeway I leave lots of space because everytime you brake you waste fuel trying to get back up to the speed you were, and I kind of like aiming for high MPG).
Going down steep hills I let the engine/transmission brake as much as possible, modern trucks now detect when you're going down hill and as soon as you brake down a slope they drop you a gear or 3 and spike your rpms to help hold you back, love that feature especially useful while towing.
Personally I'd sooner think hitting the brakes hard is far worse for warping and heat, but I'm no mechanical engineer.
I do avoid braking whenever possible (so on the freeway I leave lots of space because everytime you brake you waste fuel trying to get back up to the speed you were, and I kind of like aiming for high MPG).
Going down steep hills I let the engine/transmission brake as much as possible, modern trucks now detect when you're going down hill and as soon as you brake down a slope they drop you a gear or 3 and spike your rpms to help hold you back, love that feature especially useful while towing.
Personally I'd sooner think hitting the brakes hard is far worse for warping and heat, but I'm no mechanical engineer.
If I was on a track I'd brake late and hard because that's the faster way around the track. Taking your time braking just bleeds your lap time.
From what I have seen people that are hard on brakes warp rotors. Either coming down a mountain with the brakes on fire or rushing up to a stop light then sitting there with a foot on the brakes till the light turns green .
I'm very easy on brakes. I often get 50k+ out of a set of pads and I have never had a warped rotor on my cars.
I'm very easy on brakes. I often get 50k+ out of a set of pads and I have never had a warped rotor on my cars.
True, but on the track you don't come to a complete stop, and you get right back on the gas, so the brakes have plenty of airflow to dissipate the heat. Also, depending on the car and the turn, you might brake early (though just as hard) to get on the gas early all the way through the turn.
And can overheat your brakes.
My wife is anticipating stops....I'm saying a bit too much which, in my opionion, may lead to pad deposits. Her pads look barely worn at 45K.
My experience is the opposite. My brake rotors never get deposits and I'm hard on them while my wife, softly braking always seems to get deposits.
