Double-Super-Secret 5W-40 Audi RS4 Racing Oil
- Thread starter RI_RS4
- Start date
- Status
Does fuel dilution chemically hurt anti-wear properties, besides changing viscosity?
The experts can correct this if I am off. My understanding is that two things happen simultaneously with fuel dilution. The oil oxidizes which causes it to thicken and the fuel itself thins the oil so that the net result can be very little overall viscosity change at certain fuel dilution levels. Based on the results shown here it seems the fuel dilution in the Audi is a serious problem for most oils as seen by the drop in wear since switching to biosyn. I think even if the oil did not thin out due to fuel dilution, the high oxidation hurts the oil's ability to lubricate or maybe makes the oil more abrasive due to increased solids.
I'm no expert, buy my understanding is that fuel, being a solvent, will continuously remove some types of tribological antiwear layers. It appears, based on the data that I've seen in the RS4 engine, that some additives are more susceptible to this than others.
I am slightly confused ....
If Terry has NOT consulted for RLI as you stated, then what part did he play in their 5w-40 end product?
Did he approach them and say
"I have 'Daddy Warbucks' who wants his own special oil, and this is what I think it should consist of..."
Also....
Is the end product you are using NOT the same that they are selling currently?
i.e. If I order up some 0w-20 for the Odyssey is it 'Double Super Secret' 0w20?
Cheers!
If Terry has NOT consulted for RLI as you stated, then what part did he play in their 5w-40 end product?
Did he approach them and say
"I have 'Daddy Warbucks' who wants his own special oil, and this is what I think it should consist of..."
Also....
Is the end product you are using NOT the same that they are selling currently?
i.e. If I order up some 0w-20 for the Odyssey is it 'Double Super Secret' 0w20?
Cheers!
The way I understand it is that Terry did consultant work for RI_RS4. During that work, Terry contacted RLI for the double super secret oil to solve the problem.
You will get the Double Super Secret 0W20 oil if you order on their webpage which I would venture to guess is the exact same that Terry is running.
You will get the Double Super Secret 0W20 oil if you order on their webpage which I would venture to guess is the exact same that Terry is running.
Quote:
I am slightly confused ....
If Terry has NOT consulted for RLI as you stated, then what part did he play in their 5w-40 end product?
HondaMan, good question.
I have been working with Terry over the past year on my RS4 engine. When we discovered that it had high fuel dilution, was eating oil and itself, I asked him to go beyond normal oil interpretation and consult for me. For about the past 10 months, I've hired Terry as an oil analysis and formulation consultant. After much testing of multiple "Audi approved oils" (and a few non-approved oils) in 13 different RS4 engines, from owners all over the world, we came to the conclusion that no standard oil was going to do the job. So, I gave Terry permission to start investigating the formulation of our own oil.
Terry is not a formulator himself, but he does know what goes into a good formulation, and, most of all, based on our testing, he knew exactly what the RS4 engine needed. Thus he contacted several formulators that he knew were top notch, and selected Renewable Lubrications, based on their technology and interest in working with us. If Renewable Lubricants had already had a 5W-40 oil on their menu (which is what Audi recommends here in the US) we would have gone with that and tested it.
Since Renewable Lubes did not have an existing 5W-40 oil, Terry asked them to formulate one to his specs, based on their technology, with the RS4 in mind. The formulation itself at RLI did not cost anything. They can formulate as small a batch as 55 gallons, which is enough for about 20 RS4 oil changes, at 10 Qts per change. They trusted that after our testing we would find enough owners to use at least that much oil. I believe we've close to done that after about 4 months.
There is not much different between the 5W-40 oil that the formulated for me, and their standard racing products, except for some base stock and additive differences. Most of the base and additive technology is substantially the same.
The Double-Super-Secret title was in homage to a similar line in the movie, Animal House, when Dean Wormer puts the Delta House on Double Secret Probation. I used it to draw attention to my thread on the oil testing we've done, since I was extremely happy with the results, and wanted to not only share it with everyone, but also give Kudos to Terry and RLI.
Although I paid for the development of the 5W-40 oil. I've given permission for anyone to purchase it. You just have to call Renewable Lubes up and ask for it specifically. It is a highly shear stable, fuel resistant 5W-40 oil that is wonderful in Audi and VW applications, as well as many others. If you don't need a 5W-40 oil then the other standard products that RLI makes are available in the following weights, with the same advanced base stock and additive technology: SAE: OW20, 5W30, 10W40, 15W50, 20W60, 20W70
I hope this clarifies things for you.
Ben,
Correct. Terry is running the standard renewable lubes 0W-20 in his family car, and the 5W-30 in his 302 hotrod. I just had Terry consult for me and co-opt that technology for a 5W-40 blend, engineered specifically for the RS4 direct injection engine, to combat fuel dilution.
Scott
Correct. Terry is running the standard renewable lubes 0W-20 in his family car, and the 5W-30 in his 302 hotrod. I just had Terry consult for me and co-opt that technology for a 5W-40 blend, engineered specifically for the RS4 direct injection engine, to combat fuel dilution.
Scott
Know what I smell?
I smell Audi snapping this oil up (or arranging for one of the big boys to license it) for the new RS6 engine. If the OTS stuff isn't cutting it for their high-revving high compression direct-injected naturally aspirated engine, I'd hate to see what it'd do in an engine that is all that plus turbocharged...
I smell Audi snapping this oil up (or arranging for one of the big boys to license it) for the new RS6 engine. If the OTS stuff isn't cutting it for their high-revving high compression direct-injected naturally aspirated engine, I'd hate to see what it'd do in an engine that is all that plus turbocharged...
A Corvette with Z51 package cost less than an RS4 with slighty better performance and returns good UOA's on regular ol' Mobil 1 with 7500 oci....
Ooops I meant the Corvette compared the the RS6....
True Camu, but a Corvette doesn't have 4-doors and all wheel drive. Although a beautiful machine, try driving a Corvette hard in the rain or snow.
You are absolutely right I have never driven a Corvette on dry pavement to be exact I just think all this about your engine makes me mad we can't get low sulfur fuel so you can sleep at night, without having to worry about fuel dilution.
Here's the deal I love Audi's I've always wanted an A4. But if fuel dilution is such a big concern bite the bullet and change oil more frequently. I do however appreciate your post and the knowlegde I have gained from reading about your strange and complex journey into the heart of very complex and superficial engine. One that can bark all four tires I might add...
Here's the deal I love Audi's I've always wanted an A4. But if fuel dilution is such a big concern bite the bullet and change oil more frequently. I do however appreciate your post and the knowlegde I have gained from reading about your strange and complex journey into the heart of very complex and superficial engine. One that can bark all four tires I might add...
German cars are excellent in many aspects, but some of their engine designs and demanding oil requirements seem excessive. VW/Audi's quality control bothers me.
The fact that they designed such a nice car as the RS4, yet failed to really provide adequate lubrication for this engine is a bit concering to me IMHO.
The Corvette is in a league of it's own in terms of value and performance. But for refinement and performance packaged together, the Europeans do the best job overall IMO. Japan a close second.
The fact that they designed such a nice car as the RS4, yet failed to really provide adequate lubrication for this engine is a bit concering to me IMHO.
The Corvette is in a league of it's own in terms of value and performance. But for refinement and performance packaged together, the Europeans do the best job overall IMO. Japan a close second.
Could someone post a VOA of the oil?
I am just wondering what it will come out as...
I am just wondering what it will come out as...
AG, Like nothing you've ever seen on BITOG before.
Well now you just teasing me hehe...
- Status
Similar threads
