Dollar General sued over obsolete oils

[meborder]

Agree 100%.

It's not hard to turn the bottle around and read it.

That's what I did when I saw it on the shelf....

 

[Joe90_guy]

Just another thought...

Today's super-whizzo, modern lubricants have to pass the Sequence IIIG engine test. No-one seems to trumpet that this test is based on a 1996 engine! Yes, that's right; one that's almost twenty years old!!

So using obsolete oils is not okay but using obsolete tech to develop new lubricants is?

 

[Lubener]

Anybody can sue anyone. Suceeding is another story... Personally, I see nothing wrong with what the Dollar Store done. Maybe it was meant for a compressor, everyone wants that free buck and all the entitlements that come with it.

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted By: BigD1
All the DG stores I have been in have limited shelf space. I reckon they could put oil on the same shelf as the corn flakes.


This is one of my reasons that DG or any other dollar store really shouldn't be selling API SA oils.

Originally Posted By: Lubener
Anybody can sue anyone. Suceeding is another story... Personally, I see nothing wrong with what the Dollar Store done. Maybe it was meant for a compressor, everyone wants that free buck and all the entitlements that come with it.


How many people go to a dollar store to get lubrication for there air compressor? No free bucks, no entitlement, just stop it. Someone just didn't do there homework properly at what motor oil to sell.

 

[TFB1]

Almost amazing all the folks that can't be bothered to read four or five lines of type, but will readily blame someone else when they foul up...

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: NH73
Originally Posted By: BigD1
All the DG stores I have been in have limited shelf space. I reckon they could put oil on the same shelf as the corn flakes.


This is one of my reasons that DG or any other dollar store really shouldn't be selling API SA oils.

Originally Posted By: Lubener
Anybody can sue anyone. Suceeding is another story... Personally, I see nothing wrong with what the Dollar Store done. Maybe it was meant for a compressor, everyone wants that free buck and all the entitlements that come with it.


How many people go to a dollar store to get lubrication for there air compressor? No free bucks, no entitlement, just stop it. Someone just didn't do there homework properly at what motor oil to sell.



And how many people with a nice car and half a wit really go to a dollar store to get lubrication for their car and end up with the no-name brand?
DG covers both ends of the market with Peak/Castrol (in my area) and their store brand that people buy to top off their oil burning hoopties.
Both ends of the spectrum are presented.
It is incumbent upon the consumer to do their due diligence.
As I previously posted, while probably not the greatest oil, it is sufficient for a top off oil.
I'd like to meet the person who actually buys 5 qts of it for an OC. Much better choices for an OC for less money.
If the Nanny/Chasers really want to do something, go after the people who prodce and sell the City Star/Bullseye (and similar) brands of the world that have the potential to do some real damage to an engine. Not so much motivation there because pf pocket depth.

 

[BigD1]

Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: BigD1
All the DG stores I have been in have limited shelf space. I reckon they could put oil on the same shelf as the corn flakes.


This is one of my reasons that DG or any other dollar store really shouldn't be selling API SA oils.


So DG stocks oil with oil, and since they are a dollar store they should not sale SA oil. But it's OK for everybody else to sale it including Tractor Supply, my local hardware stores, and auto parts stores, and they all stock it with oil. I lost some brain cells.

I keep a quart bottle of it to wipe down my gardening/yard tools every now and then.

 

[javacontour]

Exactly, I'm more concerned about an oil that says it meets the SN standard, but doesn't.


To me, that's intentional deception. If an oil says on the bottle it's not for use in vehicles newer than _____, then it's not deception.

It may not be obvious, but it's not deception.

Deception is where you say you meet a standard you don't meet. Deception is not where you say you are for older vehicles, etc.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

To fully test against the SN specification would cost about half a million dollars, hence PQIA cannot state that an oil meets the specification without running all of the tests. It can, however, report that an oil does not meet a specification if any the results from the tests they do run fail to meet the requirements of a specification.


So then the next question would be what exactly is the spec? Is it along the lines of:
Must contain xxx ppm of additive yyy, aaa ppm of bbb additive or must it meet some wear, detergency, etc standards?

Or: Could an oil that "fails" in some additive still pass the whole battery of tests that make up the API certification?

Does DG even sell SA oil? The pics posted on Pg 4 of this thread showed SF rated oil with DG's branding.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool


Sorry for the confusion. If there is no single manufacturer specifying API SA oil, then it does not exist. It is beyond an obsolescence thing at this point.


Sorry, that is incorrect. If the specification exists then it most definitely does exist. Especially when the organization that sets the standard lists it on an easily obtainable chart on their website.

Just because nobody specs it today doesn't mean it doesn't exist! I can't see gravity but it sure does exist.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: javacontour


Deception is where you say you meet a standard you don't meet.


Deception is where the front label says in large print that it is a "Motor Oil" when in fact it is not recommended for use in any motors built in the past 85 years, and the American Petroleum Institute says it may cause harm to motors built after 1930.

If you want to use an SA oil in compressors, fine, call it a "Compressor Oil". If you want to use in on gears, fine, call it a "Gear Oil". If you want to use it on hinges, fine, call it a "Hinge Oil". Just don't call it a "Motor Oil" if it should not be used in motors, and don't mix it in with real motor oils on the shelf where it can confuse people.

I don't object to SA oils being sold, I object to SA oils being sold as Motor Oil.

Tom NJ

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

To fully test against the SN specification would cost about half a million dollars, hence PQIA cannot state that an oil meets the specification without running all of the tests. It can, however, report that an oil does not meet a specification if any the results from the tests they do run fail to meet the requirements of a specification.


So then the next question would be what exactly is the spec? Is it along the lines of:
Must contain xxx ppm of additive yyy, aaa ppm of bbb additive or must it meet some wear, detergency, etc standards?

Or: Could an oil that "fails" in some additive still pass the whole battery of tests that make up the API certification?

Does DG even sell SA oil? The pics posted on Pg 4 of this thread showed SF rated oil with DG's branding.


The only additive specified in the SN specification is phosphorus (in the form of ZDDP), which has a specification of 0.06 - 0.08%. An oil with a phosphorus content outside that range fails the phosphorus specification, and therefore the SN specification. All of the other specifications for SN are physical and performance specifications for things like viscosity, wear, corrosion, deposits, volatility, etc. Some are bench tests and some are full blown engine tests.

Yes DG does sell and SA oil under their brand.

Tom NJ

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: gathermewool


Sorry for the confusion. If there is no single manufacturer specifying API SA oil, then it does not exist. It is beyond an obsolescence thing at this point.


Sorry, that is incorrect. If the specification exists then it most definitely does exist. Especially when the organization that sets the standard lists it on an easily obtainable chart on their website.

Just because nobody specs it today doesn't mean it doesn't exist! I can't see gravity but it sure does exist.


Service Category SA is defined as an oil with no additives. It has no specifications.

Tom NJ

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

The only additive specified in the SN specification is phosphorus (in the form of ZDDP), which has a specification of 0.06 - 0.08%. An oil with a phosphorus content outside that range fails the phosphorus specification, and therefore the SN specification. All of the other specifications for SN are physical and performance specifications for things like viscosity, wear, corrosion, deposits, volatility, etc. Some are bench tests and some are full blown engine tests.

Yes DG does sell and SA oil under their brand.

Tom NJ


Thanks.

 

[daves87rs]

Well, since it took 8 pages and nobody has mentioned it yet...

I could care LESS what the comsumer buys on the DG shelf-it's their choice...and if they are too dumb to read the labels, then it's just too bad.

I can see why Tom would be happy to have it off the shelves...because it will keep people from blowing their cars up....


BUT- who is going to protect US???? I have been behind two people on the freeway who blew their engines on what looked to be decent cars (not hoopies) One dropped speed so fast I had to nearly leap out of the way to avoid it. People already do enough dumb things in their car- I really don't want to add having the really wrong kind of oil to it. Do you? It's like telling someone it's okay to run nearly bald tires when nearly any new tire (like sm/sn oil) would do.


Maybe you guys are okay with freedom of choice here, but when you are driving something that could kill someone (and take out many more than just themselves), having more proper choices make sense here.

Could less about the lawsuit....more about getting it off the shelves...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well this stuff may be "garbage" to a person with a newer vehicle. But one also has to consider that the reason DG, Family Dollar, and similar outlets even exist is to meet the needs of many lower income people and value minded folks. The lower income tier, they usually can only afford an old beater that was made when older oils were still the norm...

These are outdated specifications that no one polices. That's the problem. One can claim an oil meets SG or older. But, the API doesn't license those. So, one can claim whatever the heck one really wants, and have something that may or may not meet that standard within the bottle. I don't doubt that GC meets SL, considering it's other specifications. When Imperial Oil or Shell or Petro-Canada or Red Line or Royal Purple say that an oil is recommended where CG-4, or some other obsolete spec, is required, I would tend to believe them. But here, we know better. I sure has heck don't want to see an oil on the shelf from a company I've never heard of claiming only a specification from 40 years ago that no one currently certifies or polices.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Soda does not have an "expire" date. They are either "sell by" or manufacture dates if they do not have the "sell by" next to it. That is more of a marketing term by the soda companies to ensure best freshness and taste, it is not a go bad date. Until may 10-15 years ago, there was no dating on soda products.

I'm well aware of that. As an aside, the containers sometimes weaken, or the contents will get flat. The issue is this, however. If Pepsi or Coke does your orders for you, and your pop expires, they give you a refund. Coke wants the product back. Pepsi does not. So, some of these products magically make it to a dollar store that pays little to nothing for the product, and then sells them at a nice markup. Of course, it doesn't go bad. But, if I give you a 5 year old plastic bottle of Coke to drink, you'll know it, rest assured.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
It won't be long before we have to fill out a pile of paperwork to buy racing oils. They'll be locked up in a cabinet like pharmacy drugs.

No one with any common sense worries about uncertified M1 Racing, or a non-API high mileage oil from the majors, or even most boutiques. When an oil claims SF, and the oil company wasn't even in business when SF was current, there's a reason to worry.

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: BigD1
All the DG stores I have been in have limited shelf space. I reckon they could put oil on the same shelf as the corn flakes.


This is one of my reasons that DG or any other dollar store really shouldn't be selling API SA oils.


So DG stocks oil with oil, and since they are a dollar store they should not sale SA oil. But it's OK for everybody else to sale it including Tractor Supply, my local hardware stores, and auto parts stores, and they all stock it with oil. I lost some brain cells.

I keep a quart bottle of it to wipe down my gardening/yard tools every now and then.





Where did I say that they should not stock SA oil?
I said that it is up to the consumer to be responsible enough to READ THE BOTTLE and determine whether or not the oil is appropriate for their vehicle.
I think that it is fine that they sell hooptie oil as long that it is marked as such (and it appears that it is.)

 

[javacontour]

Part of the problem is motor is a very generic term.

Having studied and earning a degree as an electrical engineer, most cars use internal combustion engines as their primary power source. But there are various motors such as fan motors and starter motors.

So, while I admit, it's pedantic, motor oil is a poorly chosen term to describe the oil used in an internal combustion engine.

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: javacontour


Deception is where you say you meet a standard you don't meet.


Deception is where the front label says in large print that it is a "Motor Oil" when in fact it is not recommended for use in any motors built in the past 85 years, and the American Petroleum Institute says it may cause harm to motors built after 1930.

If you want to use an SA oil in compressors, fine, call it a "Compressor Oil". If you want to use in on gears, fine, call it a "Gear Oil". If you want to use it on hinges, fine, call it a "Hinge Oil". Just don't call it a "Motor Oil" if it should not be used in motors, and don't mix it in with real motor oils on the shelf where it can confuse people.

I don't object to SA oils being sold, I object to SA oils being sold as Motor Oil.

Tom NJ