Dollar General sued over obsolete oils

[Brybo86]

if the oil is labeled SA and says not suitable for cars made after XXX how is that illegal?

how about oils being sold at SG? also illegal?
SL? illegal?
SM?
anything but the current spec is illegal?

HUGE GRAY AREA!!! where does the madness end?? lawyers are the SCUM of the earth!!

 

[AirgunSavant]

People love to root in those flea market kind of stores.
We had a hardware store in Newark DE. in the day. The owner was a wheeler dealer and bought old stock of everything. Threw it on the floor and priced it for pennies. I bought oil, parts, cases of ammo etc. People freaked over that stuff.

So I guess you can't do that anymore because someone may get the wrong oil. I guess if you sell them HDEO 15w-40 diesel oil for their 0W-20 vehicle you screwed them, right???????

Sorry I'm not a fan of the lawsuit.

 

[djb]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
I don't consider any correctly labeled product to be a problem, if consumers can't read the label and/or owners manual, isn't the oil mfgr problem... These same consumers likely have their noses stuck in a smart phone all their waking hours... Would not want me on that jury...



I don't consider that reasonable.

I have a bunch of 10uF 250V capacitors on my workbench. Can you tell me which is suitable for use as a motor run capacitor? What rating should you be looking for? Will a CBB60 capacitor substitute for a CBB1 rating? Is a 25/70 temperature rating worse than a 20/85 rating?

If you get this wrong, you could destroy expensive equipment and perhaps start a fire.

Ask someone with basic electronics education and they'll tell you that if the capacitance is the same and voltage rating is the same or higher and it will substitute. (Much like "if the viscosity range matches...") That is very very wrong.

It's not like this is exotic hardware. You very likely have significantly more equipment with run capacitors than vehicles that use oil.

The point is that what is obvious to a reader of BITOG is obscure caveats to regular consumers.

 

[901Memphis]

Honestly the elemental analysis of the DG 10w30 doesn't look like it would hurt any modern vehicles, it has sufficient anti wear additives.

I love the work PQIA usually does but this seems like a step in the wrong direction.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: djb
Originally Posted By: TFB1
I don't consider any correctly labeled product to be a problem, if consumers can't read the label and/or owners manual, isn't the oil mfgr problem... These same consumers likely have their noses stuck in a smart phone all their waking hours... Would not want me on that jury...



I don't consider that reasonable.

I have a bunch of 10uF 250V capacitors on my workbench. Can you tell me which is suitable for use as a motor run capacitor? What rating should you be looking for? Will a CBB60 capacitor substitute for a CBB1 rating? Is a 25/70 temperature rating worse than a 20/85 rating?

If you get this wrong, you could destroy expensive equipment and perhaps start a fire.

Ask someone with basic electronics education and they'll tell you that if the capacitance is the same and voltage rating is the same or higher and it will substitute. (Much like "if the viscosity range matches...") That is very very wrong.

It's not like this is exotic hardware. You very likely have significantly more equipment with run capacitors than vehicles that use oil.

The point is that what is obvious to a reader of BITOG is obscure caveats to regular consumers.

If I was going to replace a capacitor, motor, thermocouple, switch, etc., I would do my homework (starting with the owners/repair manual) to guide my selection, looking closely for a specific part number rather than trying to match specs. Seems reasonable to me. Maybe it isn't so bad when auto makers put an oil company's name and logo on the oil fill cap. If my fill cap says 5W-30 Mobil 1 (or Castrol, Valvoline, etc.), then I am probably safe grabbing that product off the shelf and using it.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: djb
...

I don't consider that reasonable.

I have a bunch of 10uF 250V capacitors on my workbench. Can you tell me which is suitable for use as a motor run capacitor? ....


If I do choose to do my own repair and maintenance, who should bear the economic consequences of my ignorance / poor maintenance skills - the supply house that sold it to me? The manufacturer? Or myself?

Or, put another way, do you want informed consumers to pay higher product prices because of the uninformed?

Where do you draw the line with this stuff? Do we get rid of light duty extension cords because people heat them up and burn their houses down?

Assuming, of course, the products in question are correctly labeled and meet the stated specification.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Brybo86
if the oil is labeled SA and says not suitable for cars made after XXX how is that illegal?

how about oils being sold at SG? also illegal?
SL? illegal?
SM?
anything but the current spec is illegal?

HUGE GRAY AREA!!! where does the madness end?? lawyers are the SCUM of the earth!!
Untill you need one, then you go for the slippery one yourself.

 

[HerrStig]

These people we are supposed to "protecting" probably have a bigger TV and nicer car than the average Bitoger and know their way around the Walmart snack aisle in the dark. You CANNOT, in the end, protect the comatose from themselves.

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: spackard
Diesel is sold right next to petrol.

I'm a unfrozen caveman lawyer, your world confuses and frightens me. My simple mind can't grasp these things.


Not same thing.

I agree with Tom NJ, this oil shouldnt be for sale. Period. If I were DG, I wouldnt even try this for profit, many other ways to increase profit and their legal fees are going to increase significantly. Just bad business.

 

[sir1900]

I predict this lawsuit will be thrown out of court. People who can't read an owner's manual and bottle labelling have no business changing their own oil.

 

[AirgunSavant]

Honestly you have a very valid point.
Most people like those here are so over-read they are almost paralyzed by
the info

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: djb
Originally Posted By: TFB1
I don't consider any correctly labeled product to be a problem, if consumers can't read the label and/or owners manual, isn't the oil mfgr problem... These same consumers likely have their noses stuck in a smart phone all their waking hours... Would not want me on that jury...



I don't consider that reasonable.

I have a bunch of 10uF 250V capacitors on my workbench. Can you tell me which is suitable for use as a motor run capacitor? What rating should you be looking for? Will a CBB60 capacitor substitute for a CBB1 rating? Is a 25/70 temperature rating worse than a 20/85 rating?

If you get this wrong, you could destroy expensive equipment and perhaps start a fire.

Ask someone with basic electronics education and they'll tell you that if the capacitance is the same and voltage rating is the same or higher and it will substitute. (Much like "if the viscosity range matches...") That is very very wrong.

It's not like this is exotic hardware. You very likely have significantly more equipment with run capacitors than vehicles that use oil.

The point is that what is obvious to a reader of BITOG is obscure caveats to regular consumers.
Even regular consumers can read and understand the motor start capacitor Wiki.

 

[itguy08]

1st of all those oil viscosities are pretty obsolete by themselves. How many post '88 cars spec 10w30/10w40/SAE30? Seems that most by then were 5w30.

2nd - If I walk in to DG looking for oil and have a 1989 Hooptie, I'd read the bottle and see "Not good for cars 1988 and newer" and say "Hey, I've got an 89 Hooptie, I better get that Peak next to it.

3rd as long as it meets the specs listed on its bottle who cares? If you're ignorant enough to not at least look at what you are buying then you deserve what you get.

Just another frivolous lawsuit that will only serve to increase the prices we pay!

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
.... They seek out the poor and ignorant, the weakest of consumers, for their personal gain, and when the products they sell are downright harmful they are evil. ....


Good grief. Selling correctly labelled SA and SF motor oil is evil?

What about booze and coffin nails? Pot? Cokes? Twinkies? White bread? "HD" tv antennas? Ammunition? VW diesels?

Where do you draw the line at protecting people from themselves, especially when this is not even protecting people - it's protecting clunkers, at best.



Correctly labeled? THERE IS NO SUCH APPROVAL AS API-SA.

 

[javacontour]

Yes consumers are uneducated.

Because it's so hard to read the owners manual to see what is recommended for your car.

It's hard to use google to see what is recommended for your car.

The above statements were sarcasm. If you are not smart enough to do your homework, should you be driving a car?

SOME blame has to go on the consumer for not doing their homework.

SOME blame has to go on the retailer for stocking a product that is not appropriate for over 99% of the motorists out there.

SOME blame has to go on the blender/refiner/packager of these niche oils that few who frequent a quikee mart need.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool

Correctly labeled? THERE IS NO SUCH APPROVAL AS API-SA.


According to the API there is:
http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Oil-and-Natural-Gas/Engine%20Oil/MOTOR_OIL_GUIDE_2010_120210.pdf?la=en

Pg 3.

 

[javacontour]

Does the motor come with a manual? Cars do. That manual has a section that describes fluids, their capacities and specifications. I turn to that section, read and follow the recommendation.

If I don't have a manual, I can go on-line. Many manuals are available as a PDF download.

I can go to e-bay and see if I can find one if my used car didn't come with a manual.

Most parts stores can look it up.

You could always call the dealer and ask for the oil specs for a 1988 Hoopdie Convertable or whatever it is you are driving.

The only reason for ignorance in this era is someone is unwilling to spend 60 seconds looking for the information.

Originally Posted By: djb
Originally Posted By: TFB1
I don't consider any correctly labeled product to be a problem, if consumers can't read the label and/or owners manual, isn't the oil mfgr problem... These same consumers likely have their noses stuck in a smart phone all their waking hours... Would not want me on that jury...



I don't consider that reasonable.

I have a bunch of 10uF 250V capacitors on my workbench. Can you tell me which is suitable for use as a motor run capacitor? What rating should you be looking for? Will a CBB60 capacitor substitute for a CBB1 rating? Is a 25/70 temperature rating worse than a 20/85 rating?

If you get this wrong, you could destroy expensive equipment and perhaps start a fire.

Ask someone with basic electronics education and they'll tell you that if the capacitance is the same and voltage rating is the same or higher and it will substitute. (Much like "if the viscosity range matches...") That is very very wrong.

It's not like this is exotic hardware. You very likely have significantly more equipment with run capacitors than vehicles that use oil.

The point is that what is obvious to a reader of BITOG is obscure caveats to regular consumers.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
.... They seek out the poor and ignorant, the weakest of consumers, for their personal gain, and when the products they sell are downright harmful they are evil. ....


Good grief. Selling correctly labelled SA and SF motor oil is evil?

What about booze and coffin nails? Pot? Cokes? Twinkies? White bread? "HD" tv antennas? Ammunition? VW diesels?

Where do you draw the line at protecting people from themselves, especially when this is not even protecting people - it's protecting clunkers, at best.



Correctly labeled? THERE IS NO SUCH APPROVAL AS API-SA.






?????

PQIA states it meets the specification. From their website:

"The results of the tests conducted on this sample meet the SAE J300 specifications for the SAE Viscosity Grade listed on the product label, and are consistent with the listed API Service Categories.

Note: The back label on this product lists API Service SA which is an obsolete specification intended for engines built after 1930! According to the API, this service category of oil is unsuitable for most gasoline engines built thereafter and may cause harm to modern engines. To their credit, the back label includes a cautionary statement about the product's limited use." (my emphasis added)

Maybe they should do a bit of proof reading.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: TFB1
if consumers can't read the label and/or owners manual, isn't the oil mfgr problem... These same consumers likely have their noses stuck in a smart phone all their waking hours... Would not want me on that jury...


Blaming consumers is absurd. That's like blaming the baby antelope for being eaten by the lion. We can't all research and become knowledgeable about every product we buy - we have to trust and rely on the information provided on product labels. We all do it every day. Companies that prey on our lack of full knowledge in a specific area through clever and deceptive labels and product placement are predators. They seek out the poor and ignorant, the weakest of consumers, for their personal gain, and when the products they sell are downright harmful they are evil.

Most of these companies know exactly what they are doing and the potential damage it can cause. They proceed with full malice for personal profit. I can't speak for Dollar General as many retailer buyers are ignorant on motor oils, but someone in the manufacturing/marketing line must have known what they were doing.

Tom NJ

NOTE: While I am an unpaid advisor to PQIA, the opinions I express on this forum are my own and not necessarily those of PQIA.



I believe in buyer beware and being your own advocate. People are much more capable and competent than baby antelope. The above is the mantra/ideology that leads to bureaucracy. AKA [censored].

 

[Nate1979]

This lawsuit is sad. So if I want to purchase SF rated motor oil where do I go? If consumers can't read the spec on the back of the bottle what's to say they can't read Dexos, SN, ACEA, etc?

From Briggs and Stratton website:

Use a high quality detergent oil classified "For Service SF, SG, SH, SJ" or higher.