Does the brand of gas really matter?

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I can only tell you on the Trans Am it does. It has to have 92 octane. If I put Arco in and hook up the laptop I can see it pull the timing back. Chevron and Texaco, timing is right where it should be. This is all at WOT.

I don't know what to attribute this too except perhaps the additives? Maybe the in ground tanks or the truck that delivers it?


And #3 on the Top Tier list is Arco.

 

[Tdbo]

Buying gas from a clean, high volume station IMO is more vitally important than the "tier" of the gas.

The "tier" I buy is low bid as determined by Gas Buddy that meets the two criteria listed above.

The last vehicle I had went over 275K without a fuel related problem. Second owner has had no issues with it either.

In my area, to find a high volume "Top Tier," I would have to drive 25 miles round trip. Not gonna happen.

I dump a bottle of Techron in the tank every OC. Works great.

The car does not notice the difference in my regimen, but my wallet does.

 

[DBMaster]

It's very easy to get TT gas around here at competitive pricing. QT has the largest, busiest stations in the area and they are everywhere. TT gas costs less than a half-cent more to offer (for the oil company, that is) than non-TT gas. As was stated some time ago on this forum, Costco has joined the TT program. Their gas met the standards prior to that, but I guess they wanted the "seal of approval." Costco is not in a convenient location for me and there are almost always lines at the pumps. Until we're in a 1970's style gas crisis I'm not waiting in line to buy gas, no matter how cheap it is.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
It's very easy to get TT gas around here at competitive pricing. QT has the largest, busiest stations in the area and they are everywhere. TT gas costs less than a half-cent more to offer (for the oil company, that is) than non-TT gas. As was stated some time ago on this forum, Costco has joined the TT program. Their gas met the standards prior to that, but I guess they wanted the "seal of approval." Costco is not in a convenient location for me and there are almost always lines at the pumps. Until we're in a 1970's style gas crisis I'm not waiting in line to buy gas, no matter how cheap it is.

The situation at Costco was a little bit more nuanced. The stations that had the "Clean Power" setup were easily meeting the TT standard, and I'm guessing their additive manufacturer (Lubrizol) already had test results to back that up and to submit to TT if and when Costco chose to participate. However, Costco had a different system than others, where they didn't have the additive metered at the fuel depot into the delivery tankers, but rather had the additive delivered directly to each gas station and a system to meter the additive when fuel was delivered. Their biggest issue was that the Top Tier requirements are that all gas stations of a certain brand must meet the standard. Some of the stations hadn't been equipped and were apparently still receiving fuel with a minimum level of generic additive introduced at the fuel depot.

It must also have been interesting when Arco went for Top Tier. The way the Arco sale to Tesoro went down, the actual operation of Arco stations was eventually split up, with BP licensing the rights to Arco in several markets but Tesoro having the rights in all other markets. They must have gotten into some agreement about all stations meeting the Top Tier standard, although it might be possible for each company to use a different additive.

There was also BP, which refused to participate in Top Tier for years, even though they had a high standard and was directly recommended by BMW for meeting their fuel system cleanliness requirements. In that case they just didn't want to play ball for whatever reason.

 

[Durango]

Zits,

I buy most of the time ARCO cuz it's now the cheapest in my hood.
From what I read gasoline is basically the same except for the additives which is different depending on the brand. Personally I've noticed no difference between ARCO and another brand like SHELL, Chevron or 76. The main concern for me is that my engine doesn't ping.

Durango

 

[Hyde244]

I have often heard that going with a high volume station can be the biggest benefit for gasoline selection. Top Tier is nice too.

I have never experienced a car with gasoline quality related issues, and am a firm believer that the ultimate demise of anyones car will not be what gasoline was used. (Rust, other major repairs, etc.)

 

[TiredTrucker]

I agree!. High volume is much more important than the brand or "top tier" stuff. High volume equate to fresh, uncorrupted fuel in the storage tanks. A much better scenario than the marketing fluff. This volume thing is especially true with most gasolines being spiked with 10% ethanol, but a good thing with even 100% gasoline. Gas starts the degradation process almost immediately after being refined. The quicker it makes it thru the system and into a vehicle tank, the better.

 

[Nyogtha]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Gas starts the degradation process almost immediately after being refined.


Not quite - antioxidants are typically added to the unit rundown streams before the components go into separate tanks for blending into finished motor gasoline.

Plantation Pipeline recently cleared a section of their line that was filled with conventional 87 several years ago. The tanks this material were cleared into tested as still meeting all specs.

No exposure to oxygen and moderated temperatures are some key components here. There's a SWRI document in the public domain for a study undertaken for the US Military in the late 80's if you're interested in further reading.

 

[anndel]

I buy my gas at Costco most of the time and so does my wife. If she's tired, she'll just fill up at the Tesoro station down the street than driving 5 miles to Costco. Though Costco sells Top Tier gas, I use Red Line Fuel Injector cleaner every 3,000 miles.

 

[aa1986]

A friend of mine who lives in an area where there are several refineries is adamant that one brand of gas is always better for mpg and pep.

I think it may be to do with differing ethanol percentages.

 

[fdcg27]

It's marketing.
I've only been driving for about forty years and I only have little over a million miles total on spark ignition vehicles used by me as well as the rest in family fleet, so my experience is limited, but the cheapest gas you can find is the good stuff.
I've also done a couple of hundred thousand on a pair of 123 diesels, but I've never seen any diesel marketed as being "top tier".
The cheapest gas you can find will also be the freshest, since the stations with the lowest prices sell the most fuel.
You can stockpile some PEA cleaner when you can get a good deal and use it every year or so, or maybe every other OCI if you're worried about deposits but this probably isn't necessary.
I have never had any problems related to fuel in any vehicle I've ever owned and I laugh at the claims that any given brand of gas is somehow unique or "better".
The "better" notion merely represents the power of marketing to influence buyer decisions. More additives than are needed to combat excess deposit accumulation do nothing other than inflate the price of the fuel.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It's marketing.
I've only been driving for about forty years and I only have little over a million miles total on spark ignition vehicles used by me as well as the rest in family fleet, so my experience is limited, but the cheapest gas you can find is the good stuff.
I've also done a couple of hundred thousand on a pair of 123 diesels, but I've never seen any diesel marketed as being "top tier".
The cheapest gas you can find will also be the freshest, since the stations with the lowest prices sell the most fuel.
You can stockpile some PEA cleaner when you can get a good deal and use it every year or so, or maybe every other OCI if you're worried about deposits but this probably isn't necessary.
I have never had any problems related to fuel in any vehicle I've ever owned and I laugh at the claims that any given brand of gas is somehow unique or "better".
The "better" notion merely represents the power of marketing to influence buyer decisions. More additives than are needed to combat excess deposit accumulation do nothing other than inflate the price of the fuel.


Well I've only got 20 driving years so only half the years experience,however I can truly say I've driven as many miles as you have and until I bought/built my harley my experiences mimicked yours however today I've found there are brand differences.
Now I can't say that the differences I've seen are due to posdible older fuel at certain stations or what,only that my Harley will ping consistently on certain brands of fuel yet on others it doesn't.
So I buy what has proven itself in my Harley and use it in all my engines.
I'm not saying that some brands are bad,but I am saying some brands,at least in my local market,are better.

 

[TiredTrucker]

As one who has hauled a lot of fuels, a typical terminal gets its fuel from a variety of refineries. And fuel is not usually separated by refinery at the terminal. The only time any differences occur is the in the actual truck loading of the fuel. The customer is designated as where the fuel is going, and based on parameters already set in the system for that particular customer, then any additives are injected into the fuel stream as it is pushed into the tanker. At the terminal, the fuel everyone gets around that area is the same fuel. Irregardless of the brand of station. But different branded stations do have different additive components and levels. If anyone gets a chance to do so, take a tour at a fuel terminal and watch this all work.

 

[BearZDefect]

TT, is it true that there are exceptions to the rule that all stations in town get fuel from the same terminal? I ask because I had a neighbor who drove a fuel tanker who said that some stations get their fuel from other terminals much farther away, even though we have a big terminal right here in town. He could not explain why, except that it was obviously their business arrangement.

 

[jrmason]

The single biggest factor i have seen that affects the quality of gas is ethanol. I notice a 3-5% decrease in fuel mileage running E10. I try to avoid gas stations that sell it. Ethanol breeds a bacteria called acetobacter which forms acetic acid. This can develop in bulk storage and may already be multiplying by the time it hits your tank. Ive Worked on too many small engines that were corroded from the moisture that accumulates from ethanol. On anything manufacured pre ethanol era, rubber fuel lines will dry and harden and eventually crack. Ferous metals were commonly used on carbs and fuel injection equipment and are especially susceptible to corrosion if even a low percentage ethanol gas is stored in the vehicle for an extended time. New vehicles are much better suited in that any rubber fuel lines are resistant to the alcohol and they no longer use ferrous metals that are susceptible to corrosion. Still, the potential for problems are there so I steer clear if at all possible. If you must store a vehicle with ethanol gas, an alcohol free corrosion inhibitor treatment is a must. Fortunately we have a few stations locally that sell ethanol free gas

 

[DBMaster]

^Lucky! We have NO stations in the DFW area selling E0 fuel.

 

[fdcg27]

Just curious.
Outside of a few marinas, where in OH are you finding a few stations that sell E0?

 

[DBMaster]

Pure-gas.org

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
TT, is it true that there are exceptions to the rule that all stations in town get fuel from the same terminal? I ask because I had a neighbor who drove a fuel tanker who said that some stations get their fuel from other terminals much farther away, even though we have a big terminal right here in town. He could not explain why, except that it was obviously their business arrangement.

Certainly that's possible. However, since base fuel is a commodity, it's not likely to make any appreciable difference unless it's a specialty fuel like race gas or ultra premium.

There are multiple fuel terminal operators, so I guess that could happen. It generally makes the most sense to get it from the closest fuel depot since that may affect the cost of delivery.

There's just so much marketing out there that a lot of people have convinced themselves that a Chevron-branded station must sell fuel that's 100% made by Chevron or some other company whose name is on the sign. Fuel is a fungible commodity. It's not that there aren't measurable differences, but there aren't any that are consistent or that terribly matter. Apparently differences can exist in the base fuel from the same refinery depending on the crude oil delivered, but that's not something that's consistent.