Does synthetic protect better than dino

[kschachn]

If you're burning oil in your gasser, HDEO "may" harm your cats more than a PCMO due to elevated ZINC and Phosphorous.

Yes of course. But it has to be a lot of oil, just using it won’t in and of itself harm the engine. Bedsides the poster said it wasn’t good for the “engine” and I wondered how it was not good.

And it’s primarily phosphorus that poisons the catalytic converter.

 

[wemay]

Yes of course. But it has to be a lot of oil, just using it won’t in and of itself harm the engine. Bedsides the poster said it wasn’t good for the “engine” and I wondered how it was not good.

And it’s primarily phosphorus that poisons the catalytic converter.

Agreed, that's why i said "may" in quotes.

 

[doublebase]

Flow is largely irrelevant as long as the oil can be pumped, and this is documented by the oil's winter rating regardless of the base stock composition. Most wear does not occur at startup either.

If most wear does not occur at startup, when does it occur?

 

[wemay]

If most wear does not occur at startup, when does it occur?

During warm up, the first few minutes of your drive.

 

[xgmad]

The higher the oil is refined, the more stable it is due to more uniform molecules.

What you may see "conventional" has more rugged and less uniform molecules which can be detrimental to cold flow and what viscosity it is (The thinner the conventional the more likelihood of shearing).

Most manufacturers dont use fully conventional oils but rather synthetic blends which are a mix of conventional and synthetic base's to help with meeting oil requirements.

Conventional oil also is reliant on viscosity index improvers and can break down more easily. (really different for each viscosity as grades like 15w40 are less reliant on viis)
So yes in general synthetics are much more superior than conventional in every aspect.
hope this helped?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

hope this helped?

I don't think there is a satisfactory answer, no matter how good the explanation. Yours was very good, as in a five year old can understand it.

 

[xgmad]

I don't think there is a satisfactory answer, no matter how good the explanation. Yours was very good, as in a five year old can understand it.

lol

 

[doublebase]

During warm up, the first few minutes of your drive.

Ok, I was lumping startup/warmup together.

 

[kschachn]

The higher the oil is refined, the more stable it is due to more uniform molecules.

What you may see "conventional" has more rugged and less uniform molecules which can be detrimental to cold flow and what viscosity it is (The thinner the conventional the more likelihood of shearing).

Most manufacturers dont use fully conventional oils but rather synthetic blends which are a mix of conventional and synthetic base's to help with meeting oil requirements.

Conventional oil also is reliant on viscosity index improvers and can break down more easily. (really different for each viscosity as grades like 15w40 are less reliant on viis)
So yes in general synthetics are much more superior than conventional in every aspect.
hope this helped?

An oil's stability (especially oxidative stability) isn't due to the "uniform molecules", it has to do with the level of impurities - mainly various sulfur compounds and insaturates. That's what the process of synthesis tends to minimize. You've been reading too many Internet articles.

And synthetic oils also depend on viscosity index improvers.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

An oil's stability (especially oxidative stability) isn't due to the "uniform molecules", it has to do with the level of impurities - mainly various sulfur compounds and insaturates. That's what the process of synthesis tends to minimize. You've been reading too many Internet articles.

And synthetic oils also depend on viscosity index improvers.

All of that is true. Now try to explain that to the average person who's in the automotive section at Walmart, with a finger in their mouth, wondering which is the prettiest, most eye-catching motor oil jug. Thang God they don't sell laundry detergent nearby...

 

[Mitch51]

Synthetic does not protect better, it protects longer the engine, because it can bear oxydation.
Dino can stand 10 000 miles, whereas Synthetic can last 20 000 miles.
It's the additives that protect the engine. The better the additives, the better the protection.
But about which "Synthetic" are we talking about ? Group II ? III ? IV ? V ?

 

[Andrew1972]

It’s better however your use case and ownership period it may not be.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

For some weird reason, many think that an HDEO is good for their gasoline engines. Well, it's not.

The 10w30 grade oil I mentioned - no longer formulated the same, or marketed as simply Triple Protect - was a multi- vehicle farm and fleet oil, a very good oil, and a darling for the old SOHC VTEC Subaru Ej engines, Lawn mowers, tractors and Classic cars. It was API Dual rated for Spark and Compression (Commercial to some) engines.

I would never promote the use of most non dual rated 'C' category oils in a spark engine.
Those who run 15W40 in their classic cars and hot rods are missing out on a much better running engine
if they would use a more 'correct' oil.

The now obsolete Shell PDS (.pdf) from 2007 is inserted below:

- Ken

 

[kschachn]

Synthetic does not protect better, it protects longer the engine, because it can bear oxydation.
Dino can stand 10 000 miles, whereas Synthetic can last 20 000 miles.
It's the additives that protect the engine. The better the additives, the better the protection.
But about which "Synthetic" are we talking about ? Group II ? III ? IV ? V ?

Group II base stocks are not synthetic so they don't apply. And what do you mean by "protection"? Because yes a synthetic will protect the engine better if you're talking about deposit control, and most "additives" negatively impact the results of a TEOST. So if that's the definition of protect then it's far more dependent on base stock composition than additives. If protection is defined by the MOFT then that's somewhat dependent on additives especially for lower viscosity oils. But it's also highly dependent on viscosity, MOFT rules for wear. If you don't keep the parts separated then high wear will occur.

All synthetics even the lowly Group III ones strive for a reduction in impurities which have a huge impact on deposits. The old ExxonMobil presentation on Visom is a good visual example of this. The better the inherent viscosity index of the base oil the fewer VII you require to achieve a specific performance level in the finished oil.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

The 10w30 grade oil I mentioned - no longer formulated the same, or marketed as simply Triple Protect - was a multi- vehicle farm and fleet oil, a very good oil, and a darling for the old SOHC VTEC Subaru Ej engines, Lawn mowers, tractors and Classic cars. It was API Dual rated for Spark and Compression (Commercial to some) engines.

I would never promote the use of most non dual rated 'C' category oils in a spark engine.
Those who run 15W40 in their classic cars and hot rods are missing out on a much better running engine
if they would use a more 'correct' oil.

The now obsolete Shell PDS (.pdf) from 2007 is inserted below:

- Ken

You are right. However, motor oil is getting more specific. And it works in favor of the industry, not the consumer.

When I made my statement, I was thinking about the above. Most HDEO oils are no longer dual API rated. It can happen that people don't pay attention or that they are at the end of their favorite HDEO stash and go out to buy some more. They either find that it's no longer produced, which is the fortunate case, or they grab a few jugs of, say, Rotella T4 or T6, only to find out that it's not what it used to be for their engines. They had to reformulate these oils to accommodate newer heavy-duty diesel engines while maintaining some compatibility with the older ones, so I guess something had to give, or they're not interested in the mixed fleet market with these oils. Rotella T6 0W-40 and 5W-30 are still dual rated if you can easily find them.

So I was thinking about the present situation when I made my current statement. Heck, back in '04, I was running T3 15W-40 in an old Galant beater that I used to drive to work. I bought it used, and it was in rough shape, so that kept oil consumption down for some reason. I didn't really care as long as I had a car to drive.

 

[PimTac]

So an HDEO is "not good" since it may not have any gasoline certifications? That's the weird reason?

This is as bad as pulling teeth trying to get a answer.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Group II base stocks are not synthetic so they don't apply. And what do you mean by "protection"?

I hope this isn't off-topic, but what's the deal with EHC45 and EHC60? Do you know in which oils Mobil is using those base stocja? Sorry, a light bulb turned on in my mind when you mentioned Group II.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

This is as bad as pulling teeth trying to get a answer.

Having been to the Dentist more than a few times recently, I would say it is hard to answer
when the good Doctor and the Assistant have their mitts and a suction tube shoved in you mouth!

My comment relating to Grampi comment was that I would RATHER run - and have run - a good Dino vs. a bad synthetic.
The above mentioned Rotella 10W30 Triple Protect was a much better oil formulation in situ than the Castrol Syntec of the day.

So as I have said in the past when this animal was more scarce - a Good oil is a Good oil.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I hope this isn't off-topic, but what's the deal with EHC45 and EHC60? Do you know in which oils Mobil is using those base stocja? Sorry, a light bulb turned on in my mind when you mentioned Group II.

You have probably read this, but for others reading this thread ....

Group II/II+ EHC™ Products | ExxonMobil Basestocks

Learn more about ExxonMobil Group II/II+ EHC base stocks designed to meet the needs and requirements with in the base oil and base stock industries.

www.exxonmobil.com

 

[wemay]

There is no disclosure from the manufacturers where they're using GrpII+ EHC but one odds-on favorite may be Havoline High Mileage "Synthetic Technology" motor oil. Just my opinion based on their curious wording.