Does higher price buy better fuel?

[y_p_w]

Rhetorical question of course. Save specialty fuels, pretty much all retail base fuel is a fungible commodity that's made, traded, transported, and stored as a fungible commodity. Of course there are differences in base fuel depending on any number of factors, but it's not as if the fuel made by Chevron, Phillips, Sunoco, Shell, EM, or Valero is appreciably better or worse. Still, I think it's been established that the primary difference is the additive package in the fuel delivered to the end user. Costco has some of the lowest prices with a strong detergent package. ARCO is cost competitive, but probably meets the minimum Top Tier requirements. Still, even with the big brands there seems to be a huge difference. I was looking for gas today and came across three stations close to each other. Shell was $3.159/gallon cash for regular. Valero was $2.579 as was Exxon. I thought that Exxon was supposed to have an additive package comparable to Shell. However, Exxon and Mobil are just returning to the San Francisco Bay Area and their prices seem to be very competitive right now. Still, I remember a friend who was convinced the Shell and Chevron were the best, and Exxon or ARCO were [censored]. I don't know if he went on anything other than marketing.

 

[E150GT]

I doubt it. I run any top tier fuel from a clean station that happens to be near when I need gas. Ive heard all the chevron techron, shell V power arguments and never seen a quantifiable difference in any car I have or had. I think the main thing is high volume gas stations. You want fresh gas.

 

[bubbatime]

There is typically one fuel depo in your area. They fill up tankers from Shell, BP, Sunoco, WaWa, RaceTrac and all your other local chains. Swallow that...

 

[FZ1]

Chevron or Shell from a high volume station for me.

 

[The motor guy]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

There is typically one fuel depo in your area. They fill up tankers from Shell, BP, Sunoco, WaWa, RaceTrac and all your other local chains. Swallow that...

I was going to ask this the other day. I consistently feel a little bit of a vibration in the truck whenever I fill up at Kroger. Usually I fill up at murphys (walmart) feels like a bit of a miss at idle, so I don't know. Since I'm in Houston I have a feeling we have more than one fuel dopot. I think some fuels have lower cetane than others causing the vibration at idle. Always runs the best if I run the grey bottle diesel kleen with cetane booster.

 

[SubieMovie]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

There is typically one fuel depo in your area. They fill up tankers from Shell, BP, Sunoco, WaWa, RaceTrac and all your other local chains. Swallow that...

I was going to ask this the other day. I consistently feel a little bit of a vibration in the truck whenever I fill up at Kroger. Usually I fill up at murphys (walmart) feels like a bit of a miss at idle, so I don't know. Since I'm in Houston I have a feeling we have more than one fuel dopot. I think some fuels have lower cetane than others causing the vibration at idle. Always runs the best if I run the grey bottle diesel kleen with cetane booster.

Well, ULSD kind of screwed up the US diesel market for smaller commercial and passenger diesel cars. It made diesel cost a great deal more and for some odd reason some of the German/ European manufacturers have had issues with fuel pumps on the cars here. I think Bosch found that the diesel here in the US contributes to wear more so than the diesel in Europe. Not to mention the fact that you'll have old diesel with potential water contamination in stations that don't move enough diesel. I'd run Power Service every few tanks (4-6 times a year), just to make sure that any [censored] leftover is cleaned out. IMHO, there's a significant difference in the way a gas engine runs on lower quality gasoline compared to the way a diesel runs on older diesel or diesel with a few cetane points less than the standard. I could always tell when my diesel engine was "off". Also, once they switched over from the winter blend, it was great not having the additive that prevented the diesel from geling together (immediate +3 mpg gained).

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

There is typically one fuel depo in your area. They fill up tankers from Shell, BP, Sunoco, WaWa, RaceTrac and all your other local chains. Swallow that...

Well, that is mostly true. Except that they do put in different additives depending on where they're going. So it's not true that you get the same gas everywhere.

 

[bvance554]

I think gas prices tend to vary based on location and not name brand. Is it off the interstate? Are there many stations around? Where I exit I-95 there is an Exxon, Race Track, and 7-11 all within a penny of each other. Sometimes the 7-11 might be a penny higher than Exxon. Is the 7-11 gas better?

 

[NJ_Car_Owner]

In my town we have WaWa (NJ convenience store), Race Line (used to be Hess), Citgo, Exxon, BP and either a Texaco or Shell. We use mostly BP and the prices are all about the same. If the hype of top tier gas is true then paying 1 or 2 cents more for it is not a big deal vs buying other non top tier gas. The service stations were concerned when the WaWa was coming in because of the possibility of gas being a loss leader and they may be slightly cheaper but even though they are usually full the BP also has a ton of people who go to it.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

There is typically one fuel depo in your area. They fill up tankers from Shell, BP, Sunoco, WaWa, RaceTrac and all your other local chains. Swallow that...

I was going to ask this the other day. I consistently feel a little bit of a vibration in the truck whenever I fill up at Kroger. Usually I fill up at murphys (walmart) feels like a bit of a miss at idle, so I don't know. Since I'm in Houston I have a feeling we have more than one fuel dopot. I think some fuels have lower cetane than others causing the vibration at idle. Always runs the best if I run the grey bottle diesel kleen with cetane booster.

Idle is the last place an octane problem will show up.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

There is typically one fuel depo in your area. They fill up tankers from Shell, BP, Sunoco, WaWa, RaceTrac and all your other local chains. Swallow that...

I was going to ask this the other day. I consistently feel a little bit of a vibration in the truck whenever I fill up at Kroger. Usually I fill up at murphys (walmart) feels like a bit of a miss at idle, so I don't know. Since I'm in Houston I have a feeling we have more than one fuel dopot. I think some fuels have lower cetane than others causing the vibration at idle. Always runs the best if I run the grey bottle diesel kleen with cetane booster.

Idle is the last place an octane problem will show up.

Sounds like the discussion is about diesel.

 

[HerrStig]

Our local milk store sells Gulf, and a lot of it. I seldom buy anything else for my 210 K Camry. Shell around here is always at least 15 cents higher for the same "grade". You folks on the left coast are really getting taken advantage of. Here, right now, 87 is $2.15 per gallon.

 

[raytseng]

there is something to be said that the lowest price station, there may have defects with their tanks or much older neglected pumps so that may slightly lower the quality of fuel from contamination. you should be able to tell by eye of the station is in good shape and has decent turnover for sure you may be less likely to find a clean bathroom at the discount station. and those windshield wipers have seen better days.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

The local truck stop I use dropped Shell and went to who knows what. Still trade there as they have a lot of business and the tanker is there several times a week. One thing I did notice is that the new pump automatic shut off are a pita and shut off at any setting. Nothing wrong with my fuel tank as I don't have trouble with other pumps when I travel.

 

[MNgopher]

My Ecoboost powered F150 does monitor the octane of the fuel and provides a number relative to whats finding via feedback from the engine (to prevent LSPI). I have been monitoring this number, and there is a difference depending on brand purchases. In our area, fuel comes from mainly from 4 different refineries, and from multiple terminals. That obviously varies on where you are located and has nothing to do with the additives necessarily, but only how it affects octane. And from those readings, there is little correlation to price. One of the lower priced fuels in our market actually consistently produces higher octane adjustment ratios than most of the others. On the flip side, the most expensive fuel I could fine (BP 93 Octane) actually under performed 2 other brands 91 octane (Shell and Superamerica). At the end of the day, you will have to figure out and where fuel is supplied from in your area. In some cases, it is clear and terminal supply certain brands, and others its sole supply terminals for all. Varies where ever you are...

 

[Olas]

Maybe not so useful to you guys, but over here there is a big difference. Shell being the most expensive and Tesco/Morrisons being the cheapest (tesco and morrisons are like wal-mart) Shell fuel drives better, goes further and doesn't knock. Supermarket fuel doesn't idle smoothly, doesn't accelerate as smooth or as hard, and doesn't go as far on a tank. Not to mention contamination issues that block filters and coat o2s making them ineffective. You definitely get what you pay for.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: NJ_Car_Owner

In my town we have WaWa (NJ convenience store), Race Line (used to be Hess), Citgo, Exxon, BP and either a Texaco or Shell. We use mostly BP and the prices are all about the same. If the hype of top tier gas is true then paying 1 or 2 cents more for it is not a big deal vs buying other non top tier gas. The service stations were concerned when the WaWa was coming in because of the possibility of gas being a loss leader and they may be slightly cheaper but even though they are usually full the BP also has a ton of people who go to it.

All I use is Wawa gas. It's treated me well.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: bvance554

I think gas prices tend to vary based on location and not name brand. Is it off the interstate? Are there many stations around? Where I exit I-95 there is an Exxon, Race Track, and 7-11 all within a penny of each other. Sometimes the 7-11 might be a penny higher than Exxon. Is the 7-11 gas better?

Well - the place I happened to be in was Dublin, California. The Shell and Chevron stations had identical, higher prices, and they were just off the freeway. The Exxon and Valero station were about a half mile away, but in a high-traffic location near several large strip malls. It was really odd too since there was a 58 cent/gallon difference.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher

In our area, fuel comes from mainly from 4 different refineries, and from multiple terminals. That obviously varies on where you are located and has nothing to do with the additives necessarily, but only how it affects octane. And from those readings, there is little correlation to price. One of the lower priced fuels in our market actually consistently produces higher octane adjustment ratios than most of the others. On the flip side, the most expensive fuel I could fine (BP 93 Octane) actually under performed 2 other brands 91 octane (Shell and Superamerica). At the end of the day, you will have to figure out and where fuel is supplied from in your area. In some cases, it is clear and terminal supply certain brands, and others its sole supply terminals for all. Varies where ever you are...

We've got five major oil refineries in the San Francisco Bay Area, and 14 fuel terminals. I'm not counting the terminal at San Francisco Airport, which I'm assuming is primarily for jet fuel. Even then there's always the possibility of refinery maintenance, accident, or even work stoppage. I remember when the Tesoro Golden Eagle refinery had a strike, they basically shut it down so it wouldn't explode and then the price of fuel in California jumped within a week. We live close enough the Chevron Richmond refinery that we can hear the sirens whenever there's an incident. Richmond has four fuel terminals, including Phillips. The odd thing is that Phillips has a refinery about 8 miles away and they don't have a fuel terminal there. The station I went to has some of the lowest prices in the area - even less than any area Costco. It's also in a no-man's land with respect to any of the fuel terminals, so there's probably a greater cost to transporting to this location. http://www.energy.ca.gov/almanac/petroleum_data/refineries.html Here's the higher resolution version of the map, but it's in PDF form: http://www.energy.ca.gov/maps/powerplants/refinery_locations.pdf

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: raytseng

there is something to be said that the lowest price station, there may have defects with their tanks or much older neglected pumps so that may slightly lower the quality of fuel from contamination. you should be able to tell by eye of the station is in good shape and has decent turnover for sure you may be less likely to find a clean bathroom at the discount station. and those windshield wipers have seen better days.

I don't know. Costco has some of the best maintenance practices and the highest turnover. I'm not sure how they guarantee their supply. It could be through a combination of futures and purchasing on the spot market. They tend to shut down their stations a lot for maintenance. Even then, I see a lot of gas stations closed periodically where it's obvious they're getting new tanks. With the return of Exxon and Mobil stations to the San Francisco Bay Area, it's been a mixed bag as to whether or not they've been getting new equipment. The first Exxon stations I noticed kept their oil pumps but slapped on new graphics. Some looked a little bit awkward because there wasn't necessarily a ready-made setup to rebrand the pumps. One station covered up the old signs with tarps with the Exxon logo. The Exxon station I went to yesterday had brand new pumps that look like they're Exxon specific. The station itself was spotless. I think some of this may be ExxonMobil trying to get back into this market and willing to provide a better price to its station owners in order to rebuild name recognition. The other deal is that there isn't an ExxonMobil refinery or fuel terminal in Northern California, so they're probably getting their base fuel from someone else.