Does A Full-Synthetic Make A Cooler Dispensable???

[ULVER]

Just curious...

My cop car has coolers for the oil, transmission, and P/S, and I STILL use full-synthetics, as I really like peace of mind.

My new Honda Element SC, apparently has no external coolers.

However, after talking it over with several fleet managers, they mentioned that most all police agencies use conventional oil in the Ford Interceptors, and are driven hard, hence the coolers being needed.

They were of the opinion, that will a top-tier, full-synthetic oil, a cooler would not be needed.

Any thoughts

Also, suggests 5-20 weight, and a 10K

OCI!!! There's no way I am doing that without a cooler, or a full-synthetic.

Thanks for opinions...

 

[TimVipond]

I would tend to agree. Synthetics generally run cooler and have provide higher temperature protection.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I'm not sure if synthetic run cooler, but they do have higher flash point and don't disintegrate and leave nasty deposits as easily as mineral oils in higher operating temp. enviornments (read: turbocharged engines).

 

[Pablo]

Stick with the coolers, stick with the added oil volume.

I suppose a cooler helps a conventional oil more (see line above) - but the basic question is not answerable unless we know much more about the cooler in question....it's size, function, type and efficiency, etc....

I would not think a cooler would be absolutely necessary on an Element. And withOUT thermostat control, it may even be detrimental. But with correct engineering in a hot place, a cooler, remote by-pass, and a remote full flow filter(s) may be just the ticket.....

 

[mcrn]

I think a cooler on an automatic transmission can only help in almost every situation. Plus I still think the police car would need a cooler even with synthetics. They sometimes sit and idle for hours in the middle of the highway. Thats a lot of heat just setting there with no air flow. JMHO.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I ran synthetic... No cooler... Spun a bearing. If your oil is getting hot, it will get thinner. I'm sure you're not taking your Element to the extremes I was when I spun a bearing, but properly sized cooler/lines/fittings with a t-stat would ensure the proper temperature.

 

[03cvpi]

If it's a ford cop car, leave the coolers in place. If it's a newer ford or dodge, they will spec 5w20 and until recently was only available as a semi-synthetic or full synthetic. Although I see valvoline has a conventional 5w20 out now. I am going to try that next oci, just to see how it does. The coolers help, every old cop car I have had has the coolers and all have run over 200k, they standard cars I have had of the same design (crown vic LX) have not lasted as long and tended to overheat sitting in traffic for extended periods. As for oils I like MC5w20 with a ford filter or penz platinum or schaeffers. You probablt won't be sitting in traffic for hours at a stretch or chasing a felon in the element, but if the factory says it'll do 10k oci with 5w20, it's their warrenty,so I'd stick with it.I would switch from a semi syn to a full syn oil myself. I usually run 7.5k on my oci with an oai and they can always go longer according to blackstone.

 

[Auto-Union]

Chevy seems to think so, deleting a cooler on 'Vetts that call for synth (M1). I can't seem to think how the thermal properties of G-III "synth" would differ from other hydroprocessed.

 

[ULVER]

I don't think I explained myself too well, this thread...

I would never, ever touch all the coolers on my cop car. In fact, even my humble "beater" Escort, has an over-sized transmission cooler I put on. Actually on the Interceptor, I replace that factory one, with an Imperial drop-rate cooler rated for a mobile home, towing a small car.

!!!

I was more asking if the NEW Honda Element would benefit, from a good, full synthetic (Royal Purple for me). It seems the good folk at the Element forum, aren't as oil consumed as we...

Most seem to be a tad leary of the need for synthetic.

PERSONALLY, I wish the Honda had an external transmission cooler. The thru-radiator lines, just don't cut it to me. I want a BIG, external cooler.

ALL vehicles should come with them, or at least be a factory option. Of course, if I try to add one to the Honda, I would shoot the warranty.

Once expired, I will seriously look into having one installed.

For me, I will always desire coolers AND full-synthetics...

When coolers are not available, I think synthetics are always a dmart choice.

 

[Lonnie]

You could run Motorcraft 5w-20 and unless you run loaded you don't need a cooler. We have a lot of Honda's running in fleet service with this oil and it works. Many of these drivers are hard on the cars and we have no problems. We are not doing 10k intervals, usually 7.5k and some 5k. We replaced M1 two years ago and this oil was at least equal in all lab work and was a lot cheaper. The Mobil dealer hit us with a big price increase and we started testing other 5w-20's and settled on Motorcraft. For price and performance it's a good deal. I'm sure there are full synthetic's that are better but some of that value is only realized at longer intervals which we do not do. Some of these Honda's are document delivery vehicles in LA and they the brakes never make it much past 10k miles, so these cars are driven hard in city driving by those that get paid by the mile. I just don't think any Honda we have experience with would benefit enough from an add on oil cooler to make it worth the expense. Also we would be against it because with so many vehicles we would have some leaks or other installations problems. Most mechanics are parts changers and computer techs and do not do well when asked to fabricate something.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Sure you can get around a cooler by running a synthetic. This is especialy true of an oil that is either mostly or all ester based. Your ester based synthetics will lower the operteing temp and will not form varnish or sludge at any temp that is safe for the rest of the engine and transmissions parts especialy seals!

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Quote:

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Sure you can get around a cooler by running a synthetic. This is especialy true of an oil that is either mostly or all ester based. Your ester based synthetics will lower the operteing temp and will not form varnish or sludge at any temp that is safe for the rest of the engine and transmissions parts especialy seals!

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Would you explain how the ester based synthetics lower the operating temperature. I am presently working on a Chemistry major, so I am curious.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I also don't understand why you think a magic synthetic will replace a cooler. If the oil is getting hot, it is getting hot. Sure, the sythetic properties aren't harmed nearly as much, but hotter oil equals thinner oil, which will give you larger clearances.

If I had been running an oil cooler with the synthetic I was running, I positive I wouldn't have spun the bearing.

Regardless of what you run, keeping it at the proper operating temperature will yield best results.

 

[spOILEDrotten]

It's called specific heat capacity. Look it up. Antifreeze has a low specific heat capacity versus water. Hence, running a higher concentration of water versus antifreeze will aid in better cooling. Copper has a higher SHC than aluminum. This is why high end computers use copper cores for their heat sinks or perhaps even for the whole unit.

While I don't know the absolute specifics, I have been told repeatedly by chemists/scientists ect..., that the more refined a conventional oil is, the better it conducts heat. Also, with exceptions, the additives usually don't do as well.

Under this premise, one could possibly deduce, that a synthetic lubrication that is mostly pure, that requires less additives to make up for the cruddy base stock, would conduct heat better.

Now, as far as Group III/IV/V, I don't know.

It also differs between grades because the length of the chains are different. One person pointed out that it is a possibility that Mobil 1's pour point suffered due to longer chains of PAO that increase stability and heat transfer properties. We don't know.

However, I bet a dollar to a bag of doughnuts (cop joke

) that any properly formulated synthetic will absorb heat more quickly and then radiate it faster than any standard conventional.

 

[spOILEDrotten]

Let me add, that I know that Specific Heat doesn't necessarily mean that heat transfer coefficient is higher but you usually don't get one without the other. I'm sure some actual chemists can chime in.

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm thinking with the advent of modern cooling systems that utilise electric thermostatically controlled radiator fans as opposed to the old fashion flex fans or clutch fans, that oil coolers are not as necessary as they used to be.

Add onto that aluminium radiators that dissipate heat much better than their steel ancestors, and you've got yourself one cool cucumber.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Quote:

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I'm thinking with the advent of modern cooling systems that utilise electric thermostatically controlled radiator fans as opposed to the old fashion flex fans or clutch fans, that oil coolers are not as necessary as they used to be.

Add onto that aluminium radiators that dissipate heat much better than their steel ancestors, and you've got yourself one cool cucumber.

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Coolant and oil don't always track each other in all motors. I can currently keep my coolant at a steady 202 on a 100 degree day, but since I don't have a cooler installed on the oil, the oil temps will continue to climb higher during normal driving.

You guys can do what you want... However, from personal experience (mine and the other peoples cars I work on) if you're looking into an oil cooler, synthetic isn't the "cure-all" nor are todays WATER cooling systems.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

In our 2004 Honda Element we've run Mobil 1 0W-20 or Pennzoil 5W-20 at 7K OCI since the first oil change.

Redline MTL is in the 5 speed, and the special Honda Dual Pump fluid for the rear diff.

At 70,00 vehicle is in fantastic shape and runs great! And this vehicle see lots of high temp bumper to bumper in Denver, some cold winter driving, and lots of long climbs on Colorado's mountain passes.

I feel that using the best synthetics is the best practice.

Now that 'conventional' oils are so much improved I frequently read the other theories that good results are also possible with 'conventional' oils.

I was pleased to read the recent post on the Volvo bulletin which emphasized the importance of using 0W-30, 5W-30 or 0W-40 synthetics in extreme temp regions, and for towing or mountainous areas......or switching from 5W-30 to 5W-40 in high temps.

This reaffirms my belief in the best synthetics.

Redline 10W-40 did a great job in lowering the oil temos on the VW VR6 Passat GLX's I used to own.

Just switching from Mobil 1 15W-50 or Castrol Syntec 5W-50 to Redline 10W-40 lowered oil temps significantly and made the engine run much smoother.... no matter how hard I drove.

 

[biomed_eng_2000]

Synthetics will run cooler. Lower viscosity oil will run cooler.

Will the two above effects be cooler than an add-on cooler?

My guess...probably not.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Quote:

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Synthetics will run cooler.

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Is it because synthetic is more slippery and will therefore provide less resistance to the moving engine parts?