Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CJ-4 5w-20 - 26,015 miles on oil

FZ1

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Very doubtful. I looked back in my records and the average oil change interval since new is right at 7,000 miles. Or, maybe you are saying that 7,000 miles is too long for PCMO synthetics and HDEOs? My first extended oil change interval is with HPL.
No, I'm not saying that. I also agree that HPL appears to be a very good oil. What I'm sayin' is that, in your specific case, you have too much junk on that filter and the Filter and/or the oil and filter needs to be changed more frequently to get the junk outta your engine.
 
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wwillson

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What I'm sayin' is that, in your specific case, you have too much junk on that filter and the Filter and/or the oil and filter needs to be changed more frequently to get the junk outta your engine.
I agree that I should have changed the filter sooner than 21,000 and would have had I known the HPL oil was going to clean so much hard carbon from the pistons.

As I stated before in this post - I should have changed the filter much earlier in the run.

 

FZ1

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I agree. I think you need to shorten the oci to about 7500 and change both the oil and the filter. Good catch to notice the oil thickening. Hope it cleans up for you.
 

wwillson

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I think you need to shorten the oci to about 7500
I will continue to change the filter at 5,000 intervals until the cleaning stops. However, I will change the oil based on what we see in the UOAs I intend to run every 5,000 miles. If the UOA supports changing the oil at 10,000 or 30,000, then that's what I'll do.
 

FZ1

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I will continue to change the filter at 5,000 intervals until the cleaning stops. However, I will change the oil based on what we see in the UOAs I intend to run every 5,000 miles. If the UOA supports changing the oil at 10,000 or 30,000, then that's what I'll do.
Sure, that's your call. Looking forward to seeing a "normal" dirty filter at 5,000.
 
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Sure, that's your call. Looking forward to seeing a "normal" dirty filter at 5,000.
 

FZ1

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Lol. That ain't "normal". Hopefully, the next 5k run will be better, but, that oil appears saturated with junk.
 

wwillson

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Lol. That ain't "normal". Hopefully, the next 5k run will be better, but, that oil appears saturated with junk.
Let's examine this.

Saturated is defined as, "cause (a substance) to combine with, dissolve, or hold the greatest possible quantity of another substance." What you see trapped in the filter is a visible solid, so by definition it isn't dissolved and the oil can't be saturated with it.

The high ester and alkylated naphthalene (AN) are loosening hard carbon that is stuck to the piston crowns and ring lands. This is a good thing.

I will take a 6,000 mile oil sample next week and we'll see the condition of the oil. If the amount of insolubles is past the condemnation point, then we'll change the oil, but I can tell you from experience that the insolubles won't be high and we'll continue to run the oil until is reaches a condemnation limit.
 
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This is a sample pulled from my Durango 3.6L with 137,615 miles total and 26,015 miles on the oil. Consumption was zero during this entire 26,000 mile run, which is a change from previous runs that had consumption of about 1/2 quart per 5,000 miles. E85 was used for about 5,000 miles of the 26,000 miles on this oil. The oil was in service from 12/26/2019 - 11/5/2021, almost exactly 22 months. The oil was changed because it has thickened 17%. The lab is Wearcheck.

edit: added oil filter (Fram Ultra) pictures:

I'm surprised how much cleaning is still taking place. This filter was run from 21,000-26,000 miles and has this much carbonaceous material! We saw more debris in the filter that was run from 0-21,000 miles (see my last UOA post). The magnetic drain plug has a small amount of debris stuck to it.

View attachment 76580
View attachment 76581

View attachment 76582


Sample Information
Sample DateFeb 2020Dec 2020March 2021August 2021October 2021
Machine Age miles116,000122,200127,420132,679137,615
Oil Age miles5,00011,20015,82021,07926,015
Filter Age miles5,00011,20015,82021,0794,936
Oil Changednonononoyes
Filter Changednononoyesyes
BrandHPLHPLHPLHPLHPL
Viscosity5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO
Wear Metals
Iron513214262
Chromium<1<1<122
Nickel000<10
Titanium<1<1<1<12
Silver<1<1<1<1<1
Aluminum33155
Lead00<11<1
Copper310163966
Tin0<10<1<1
Antimony00<1<1not reported
Vanandium<1<10<1<1
Cadmium000<1not reported
Additives
Boron18181424323
Barium30102
Molybdenum523521500518545
Manganese<1<1<123
Magnesium462446430467461
Calcium34223237320333793562
Phosphorus788777760754802
Zinc948924884949988
Contaminants
Silicon1111152533
Sodium44588
Potassium1<1234
Fuel %<1.0<1.0<1.0<1.0<1.0
GlycolNegNegNegNegNEG
Soot%0.10.10.10.10.1
Fluid Condition
TBN12.37.35.053.9852.85
Viscosity8.89.19.49.5610.6
How much did you top off with? What product line of HPL is this with?
 
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Which product like is similar to Redline HP? Hoping to find similar but with a little bit longer oil duration like that can be found in amsoil signature series
 
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Which product like is similar to Redline HP? Hoping to find similar but with a little bit longer oil duration like that can be found in amsoil signature series
Just my opinion, but I believe their Super Car line would do well in an application where Red Line HP has been used.

However, the HDEO is very good as well, and it has long drain capabilities. I suppose the answer depends on exactly why you needed Red Line HP for your car.
 
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FZ1

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This is a sample pulled from my Durango 3.6L with 137,615 miles total and 26,015 miles on the oil. Consumption was zero during this entire 26,000 mile run, which is a change from previous runs that had consumption of about 1/2 quart per 5,000 miles. E85 was used for about 5,000 miles of the 26,000 miles on this oil. The oil was in service from 12/26/2019 - 11/5/2021, almost exactly 22 months. The oil was changed because it has thickened 17%. The lab is Wearcheck.

edit: added oil filter (Fram Ultra) pictures:

I'm surprised how much cleaning is still taking place. This filter was run from 21,000-26,000 miles and has this much carbonaceous material! We saw more debris in the filter that was run from 0-21,000 miles (see my last UOA post). The magnetic drain plug has a small amount of debris stuck to it.

View attachment 76580
View attachment 76581

View attachment 76582


Sample Information
Sample DateFeb 2020Dec 2020March 2021August 2021October 2021
Machine Age miles116,000122,200127,420132,679137,615
Oil Age miles5,00011,20015,82021,07926,015
Filter Age miles5,00011,20015,82021,0794,936
Oil Changednonononoyes
Filter Changednononoyesyes
BrandHPLHPLHPLHPLHPL
Viscosity5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO5w-20 HDEO
Wear Metals
Iron513214262
Chromium<1<1<122
Nickel000<10
Titanium<1<1<1<12
Silver<1<1<1<1<1
Aluminum33155
Lead00<11<1
Copper310163966
Tin0<10<1<1
Antimony00<1<1not reported
Vanandium<1<10<1<1
Cadmium000<1not reported
Additives
Boron18181424323
Barium30102
Molybdenum523521500518545
Manganese<1<1<123
Magnesium462446430467461
Calcium34223237320333793562
Phosphorus788777760754802
Zinc948924884949988
Contaminants
Silicon1111152533
Sodium44588
Potassium1<1234
Fuel %<1.0<1.0<1.0<1.0<1.0
GlycolNegNegNegNegNEG
Soot%0.10.10.10.10.1
Fluid Condition
TBN12.37.35.053.9852.85
Viscosity8.89.19.49.5610.6

Let's examine this.

Saturated is defined as, "cause (a substance) to combine with, dissolve, or hold the greatest possible quantity of another substance." What you see trapped in the filter is a visible solid, so by definition it isn't dissolved and the oil can't be saturated with it.

The high ester and alkylated naphthalene (AN) are loosening hard carbon that is stuck to the piston crowns and ring lands. This is a good thing.

I will take a 6,000 mile oil sample next week and we'll see the condition of the oil. If the amount of insolubles is past the condemnation point, then we'll change the oil, but I can tell you from experience that the insolubles won't be high and we'll continue to run the oil until is reaches a condemnation limit.
I dun examined it. Wear metals increasing, Viscosity increasing, and a layer of Junk in your oil pan.
 
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Have you thought of using a filter similar in construction to the old Fram Ultra, rather than changing every 5K? Like say an Amsoil or a Royal Purple? I think they still have the wire backed synthetic media.
 
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