Do not mix with lubricants not ACEA C3 compliant

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dparm

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Looking at the PDS for Motul 8100 X-clean 5w30. There is a very unique warning that I have not seen before:


"Do not mix with lubricants not ACEA C3 compliant"


The way I understand it, ACEA C3 is HTHS > 3.5, mid-SAPS, reduced sulphated ash (
Why is this oil not mixable? Is this a bad choice for a US vehicle? The way this PDS is worded, it sounds like this oil is targeted more at European countries and their different fuel.
 
By mixing it with non-C3 oil, you're basically defeating the purpose of having a low/mid-SAPs oil. I would assume that's the underlying premise of the warning.
 
Do you interpret that to mean that this oil is not suitable for use in the US? I haven't followed that whole low/mid/high SAPS thing.
 
Well, it's not ideal if you're going to run the typical extended oil change intervals that some of the Euro cars recommend (10-15K miles). These mid/low SAPs oils have a weaker add pack and lower starting TBN. And because our gasoline in the US is not ultra-low-sulfur compliant, then these oils may have a tough time making it through such an extended interval.

That is why BMW advises against the use of LL04 oils (bmw's mid-SAPs version of the LL01 spec) in their gasoline engines outside of Europe, if you're going to be running extended OCIs.

EDIT: But mid/low SAPs oils have their advantages, too. Weaker add packs should theoretically help reduce things like valve deposits in DI engines. Just make sure to change your oil more frequently if you're going to use them...
 
Which of your cars is this going into? In any case, 5-7K miles should be fine on mid-SAPs oil. Maybe do a used oil analysis to see how it's holding up over such interval.
 
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The EX35. It's a VQ35HR powerplant (350Z, late G35, etc). Per an older thread of mine, it's one of the few API SM oils with a decent amount of esters.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Well, it's not ideal if you're going to run the typical extended oil change intervals that some of the Euro cars recommend (10-15K miles). These mid/low SAPs oils have a weaker add pack and lower starting TBN. And because our gasoline in the US is not ultra-low-sulfur compliant, then these oils may have a tough time making it through such an extended interval.

That is why BMW advises against the use of LL04 oils (bmw's mid-SAPs version of the LL01 spec) in their gasoline engines outside of Europe, if you're going to be running extended OCIs.

EDIT: But mid/low SAPs oils have their advantages, too. Weaker add packs should theoretically help reduce things like valve deposits in DI engines. Just make sure to change your oil more frequently if you're going to use them...


They also seem to retain TBN better long term and have lower staring TAN as well.

I personally think these oils are designed with New, Clean engines in mind. There's not much "cleaning" that needs to be done. We all know that with regular maintenance, in a timely manner will keep an engine factory clean, if the proper oil is being used at correct OCIs.

Of course the fact that they recommend such high OCIs with the oil is interesting indeed and i'm interested in long term cleanliness. I've seen one too many sludged up European engines after long factory OCIs.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
The EX35. It's a VQ35HR powerplant (350Z, late G35, etc). Per an older thread of mine, it's one of the few API SM oils with a decent amount of esters.
Per my correspondence with them its GR3. It seems almost all 5w30/40 ACEA C3 oils are gr3 (i.e. > 50% hydrotreated mineral oil).

On a side note most of the engines for new Mercedes cars are DI and run a mid-SAPS oil with a 10k mile OCI.

Motul has a mid-SAPS 0w40 x-max which is 25%-50% gr3.
 
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Well shoot, guess I won't be ordering it then...

The MSDS led me to believe it contained group V:
http://www.motul-oil.co.uk/pdfs/synthetic-engine-oil/8100_X-clean_5W30_MSDS_(GB).pdf
 
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Originally Posted By: dparm
Well shoot, guess I won't be ordering it then...

The MSDS led me to believe it contained group V:
http://www.motul-oil.co.uk/pdfs/synthetic-engine-oil/8100_X-clean_5W30_MSDS_(GB).pdf


Check out the 8100 x-max 0w-40.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
On a side note most of the engines for new Mercedes cars are DI and run a mid-SAPS oil with a 10k mile OCI.

MBs have fairly large oil sumps, so that probably helps.

With that said, my local MB dealer service dept uses Mobil 1 0w-40, but it is true that many of them use Formula M 5w-40 which appears to be mid-SAPs.
 
Quote:
The MSDS led me to believe it contained group V:
http://www.motul-oil.co.uk/pdfs/synthetic-engine-oil/8100_X-clean_5W30_MSDS_(GB).pdf




I see nothing in the MSDS that could lead to that conclusion.

The base oils are not defined at all.
 
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Originally Posted By: dparm
Needs to be 5w30 and API SM for warranty purposes.

See here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2489064


The MSDS going in via the U.S. link for Motul says:

"CAS 64742-54-7 DISTILLATES(PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC 50 < = X% < 100

CAS 6472-65-0 DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), SOLVENT-DEWAXED HEAVY PARAFFINIC 0 < = x % < 1"

Good Luck!
 
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