Do hybrids last as long as naturally aspirated engine and do they make sense?

[ecotourist]

My understanding is that Toyota has essentially 2 different Hybrid systems.

The original Prius used a planetary gear set and was robust beyond belief. I don't know if the current Priuses still use that system (I think they do) but suspect they are a bit less robust due to "engineering out" the excess reliability.

The Camry uses a more conventional hybrid system with a (fairly reliable) CVT.

I'm not sure any of this matters though as Toyota has (for the most part) shown it can build reliable "most things". Low tension piston rings being one notable exception.

Have I got this right?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

My understanding is that Toyota has essentially 2 different Hybrid systems.

The original Prius used a planetary gear set and was robust beyond belief. I don't know if the current Priuses still use that system (I think they do) but suspect they are a bit less robust due to "engineering out" the excess reliability.

The Camry uses a more conventional hybrid system with a (fairly reliable) CVT.

I'm not sure any of this matters though as Toyota has (for the most part) shown it can build reliable "most things". Low tension piston rings being one notable exception.

Have I got this right?

Nope, but there are different applications and generation in the lineup.
The current hybrids such as Prius, Corolla cross hybrid, Corolla hybrid, rav 4 hybrid and Camry use the same planetary gear parallel hybrid design ( not sure about the crown the grand highlander but the trucks such as Tacoma pro use an in line hybrid mg between the ic and transmission. There have with improvements in weight and batteries that have changed programming which helps use the electric motor generators more aggressively.

My thoughts are that the parallel hybrid system is very beneficial for someone who drives a lot as long commute or uses their vehicle daily and spend a couple hours a day in the seat. For a retired person, a housewife or someone who doesn’t plan to use the vehicle often or only to run short non consecutive trips…. There are still plenty of standard ic only versions of most these models except the Camry available.
For example my wife doesn’t drive very much maybe 4 to 7 miles a day. But I wouldn’t buy a hybrid for her if we bought another vehicle. She would be happy with a 10-year-old Honda fit.

 

[ecotourist]

Nope, but there are different applications and generation in the lineup.
The current hybrids such as Prius, Corolla cross hybrid, Corolla hybrid, rav 4 hybrid and Camry use the same planetary gear parallel hybrid design ( not sure about the crown the grand highlander but the trucks such as Tacoma pro use an in line hybrid mg between the ic and transmission.

The Canadian Toyota website says the Camry XLE's transmission is a "Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT)".

But they also say the Prius XLE has an "Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission".

Do they really mean these vehicles have a CVT (or is CVT another way to say planetary gear set)? I'd be really surprised if the Prius has a conventional "CVT". Wouldn't be surprised if the Camry has one though.

Way to communicate clearly Toyota. Anyone have a source that says clearly what these Toyota power-trains are made up of?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

The Canadian Toyota website says the Camry XLE's transmission is a "Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT)".

But they also say the Prius XLE has an "Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission".

Do they really mean these vehicles have a CVT (or is CVT another way to say planetary gear set)? I'd be really surprised if the Prius has a conventional "CVT". Wouldn't be surprised if the Camry has one though.

Way to communicate clearly Toyota. Anyone have a source that says clearly what these Toyota power-trains are made up of?

They are both ecvt via a planetary gear set. There are a lot of you tube videos and websites that describe how they work. Toyota calls it a CVT for simplicity. (Most car buyers would not understand the differences..doesn’t make it exactly correct but when you dive in to understand the difference, you become an outlier)

 

[Barkleymut]

Still amazes me that with all the retired rich professionals hanging out here, that they can't afford a new/newer car after 8-12 years, just befuddles me. The last thing I want to do is drive a car with 200,000 plus miles on it. IMO YMMV

I could buy a $100k vehicle, but I usually buy a $10k good running used car. Why anyone would waste all that money on a vehicle is nuts. Of course this is just my personality, I have really good friends at work that make more than me who drive expensive German cars and start sweating on Wednesday before payday because they are out of $$. They feel bad for me because I drive an 09 Ford (it doesnt even have a backup camera! Gasp!). From time to time I ask a couple of them if they taking advantage of our very unique 401k match (company will match 30% up to 23k+ in contributions per year) the reply is usually no, im gonna START contributing next year. Fancy cars are neat if money is absolutely 100% of no concern, otherwise they are a depreciating asset and should be treated as such. Of couse this is just my opinion.
As for the OP, just buy another Corolla when yours wears out. Get the non hybrid, otherwise you will overthink everything.

 

[ecotourist]

I could buy a $100k vehicle, but I usually buy a $10k good running used car. Why anyone would waste all that money on a vehicle is nuts.

I could buy a $100k vehicle too, but I won't. My version of this is to buy a new or nearly new vehicle and then run it forever - well 20 years anyway. They've all been good running vehicles on the day I sold them (or passed them along). I just don't like to drive a rusty vehicle.

'81 Celica 13 1/2 years (rust), bought new
'86 Volvo 18 1/2 years (rust), bought new
'00 BMW 23 years (rust), bought 3 years old
'07 Accord 17 years and still going strong, bought new

 

[ekpolk]

It was checked out. Not a leaking injector

The Canadian Toyota website says the Camry XLE's transmission is a "Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT)".

But they also say the Prius XLE has an "Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission".

Do they really mean these vehicles have a CVT (or is CVT another way to say planetary gear set)? I'd be really surprised if the Prius has a conventional "CVT". Wouldn't be surprised if the Camry has one though.

Way to communicate clearly Toyota. Anyone have a source that says clearly what these Toyota power-trains are made up of?

The Toyota hybrids (the classic ones) are CVTs in their behavior only. In concept and design, they have essentially zero in common with the more common belt and cone type of CVT that has caused so much trouble in conventional cars (Nissans come readily to mind). One writer tried, pretty accurately, to describe the Toyota system as actually being a one-speed automatic in which the one speed happens to be continuously variable. In any event, nothing in common internally with what most think of as a CVT. Also, as Bryan noted, Toyota has recently released a performance hybrid design that’s appearing in several models such as certain Tacos, Grand Highlanders and Tundras. This system is different (series vs parallel) and is much more oriented to performance than improved fuel economy.

 

[Hermann]

I could buy a $100k vehicle, but I usually buy a $10k good running used car. Why anyone would waste all that money on a vehicle is nuts. Of course this is just my personality,

First point of info is that I never mentioned a $100K vehicle. Right now I could buy 6 of those. Purchased a $27K vehicle, which today is still worth $25K. My fuel saving with the ever unpopular around here hybrid, now is at $2100, compared to a V-6 pickup. Not to mention I am putting half as much Co2 into the air we all breath as my previous vehicle. Don't tell me about battery costs, Modern ICE engines are also money pits. Cam phasers and timing stuff is at least expensive. What car made today with a few exceptions does not have cam phasers. All cars are made to fail.

My only question is why are the folks with these $100k fancy vehicles in such a hurry to get to their destination and get out of them. Things that make you go Mmmm

 

[supton]

My only question is why are the folks with these $100k fancy vehicles in such a hurry to get to their destination and get out of them.

Haven’t had a chance to drive $100k vehicles but I’ve driven $1k and $10k vehicles ($30k has been the limit?), and I’ve driven them all the same. Yes I’m in a hurry to get to my destination. Better things to do with my time, places to be and things to do. Only occasionally is it about the drive, and leisurely. Rest of the time, like any time during rush hour, it’s all about minimizing time in the car.

 

[meep]

The Toyota hybrids (the classic ones) are CVTs in their behavior only. In concept and design, they have essentially zero in common with the more common belt and cone type of CVT that has caused so much trouble in conventional cars (Nissans come readily to mind). One writer tried, pretty accurately, to describe the Toyota system as actually being a one-speed automatic in which the one speed happens to be continuously variable. In any event, nothing in common internally with what most think of as a CVT. Also, as Bryan noted, Toyota has recently released a performance hybrid design that’s appearing in several models such as certain Tacos, Grand Highlanders and Tundras. This system is different (series vs parallel) and is much more oriented to performance than improved fuel economy.

The logical diagram of the CVT in our ‘24 RAV-h is more complex than I recall. MG1 and MG2 are still present, but so are 1-2 clutches, which I don’t recall in previous drawings. I’ve not looked deeper, and can’t tell be feel, but I’m wondering if this one as a volt-esq OD lockup once at speed. If it does, the lockup is seamless. The engine turns silly-low rpms on the interstate.

 

[The Critic]

Here's an example of the lubrication challenges with plug-in hybrids:

G

Thread '2024 Rav4 Prime/9100 miles/Pennzoil Platinum 0w-16 4,000 Miles/ENEOS 0w-16 4,000 Miles'

Nov 2, 2024

2024 Toyota Rav4 Prime XSE currently has 9,100 miles in 3 months.
I describe my driving style as spirited, especially on entry ramps where speed limits are 70mph.
Top Speed is 118 and gets there fairly quickly.
Vehicle returns 60-199 E MPG according to computer and worst was 29.5MPG running purely on ICE in CHARGE Mode.
I did my best to follow break-in but I definitely drove it like I stole it after 1000 miles break-in.

UOA 1: The first OC was at 800 miles and I put Pennzoil Platinum 0w-16 in with a Fram Endurance oil filter

UOA 2: Second oil change was at 4,800 miles. ENEOS ow-16 was...

• GenSan
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline

• 

 

[svenson]

OP stay with the one you have,after all you admitted its still running good,so why to buy a new one? new models are generally worst than old ones in terms of longevity.

 

[CKN]

OP stay with the one you have,after all you admitted its still running good,so why to buy a new one? new models are generally worst than old ones in terms of longevity.

8 years or 100,000 miles

• For those who opt for a hybrid model, the 2024 Toyota Warranty includes a Hybrid System Warranty that lasts for 8 years or 100,000 miles. This warranty covers essential hybrid components such as the battery, inverter, and hybrid control module.

And we know-generally they will last much longer.

 

[wtd]

I just watched this video. Ivan seems to think that the newer Toyota Hybrid is not very reliable.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Starting with the 2020 model year, every hybrid battery warranty is being increased from 8 years or 100,000 miles, to 10 years from date of first use, or 150,000 miles whichever comes first.