After re-reading it, my last post sounded tacky, i didn't mean it to sound that way, sorry JAG. 
Do engines even wear out any more?
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Originally Posted By: CBDFrontier06
It's always been my opinion that this is how makers such as Mercedes-Benz and Rolls Royce did things at one time. There was a time when some of their engines literally ran forever, and since most owners kept pristine care of the rest of the vehicle, overall longevity was stellar.
I have read that Mercedes itself admitted the 190 was the last model they put that type of engineering into.
It's always been my opinion that this is how makers such as Mercedes-Benz and Rolls Royce did things at one time. There was a time when some of their engines literally ran forever, and since most owners kept pristine care of the rest of the vehicle, overall longevity was stellar.
I have read that Mercedes itself admitted the 190 was the last model they put that type of engineering into.
That's alright hominid7. You are right. Back then I had no clue about those old BMW engines and the recommended use of thick oils in them. That experience definitely increased my awareness of motor oils. When it became a smoke cloud generator, I was putting in 1 quart of oil per week! I should have put in 20W-50 to slow the burning down but I did not know better then.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
You'll find several of those here, but i agree, in general you wont.
I sold my last car after 11 years and 225,000 miles of ownership. After spending that much time with a car you learn everything about it, the noises, when something is about to break, etc... I hated to sell it but needed the money. If i could find it again today i'd buy it back to keep as a second car.
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
You'll find several of those here, but i agree, in general you wont.
I sold my last car after 11 years and 225,000 miles of ownership. After spending that much time with a car you learn everything about it, the noises, when something is about to break, etc... I hated to sell it but needed the money. If i could find it again today i'd buy it back to keep as a second car.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
Guilty as charged! My first car I kept for 4 years and didn't know anything about maintenance...took it to JiffyLube every 3K and drove it about 90K miles. Traded it for another car and suddenly I had this obsession with small problems...any squeak, creak or rattle and I was convinced it was a lemon. Traded it for a Civic after only 6 months and lost my shirt. From some sort of guilt complex I started obsessing about oil and maintenance...sucked all the fun out of having a fun little car. Three years later traded that for a larger used Chevy on the pretense of greater 'Safety', but I think I had just come down off the high of obsessing about the Civic, which had about 50K miles and was in absolutely mint condition. Drove the Chevy for about 4.5 years (changed oil probably 15 times, bouncing from dino to syn and back due to obsession and 'philosophy' changes) and bought my current car.
Now I'm doing a reasonable maintenance plan; not really worried about it wearing out, actually don't even think about that anymore. I guess I just burned myself out on auto maintenance and I just want something to get me from A to B safely with minimal hassle. Makes me sad to think that I could probably have driven my first car this long (or at least kept that great Civic EX) and banked all those thousands of dollars I wasted. Even now I want to puke when I think about going into a car dealership.
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
Guilty as charged! My first car I kept for 4 years and didn't know anything about maintenance...took it to JiffyLube every 3K and drove it about 90K miles. Traded it for another car and suddenly I had this obsession with small problems...any squeak, creak or rattle and I was convinced it was a lemon. Traded it for a Civic after only 6 months and lost my shirt. From some sort of guilt complex I started obsessing about oil and maintenance...sucked all the fun out of having a fun little car. Three years later traded that for a larger used Chevy on the pretense of greater 'Safety', but I think I had just come down off the high of obsessing about the Civic, which had about 50K miles and was in absolutely mint condition. Drove the Chevy for about 4.5 years (changed oil probably 15 times, bouncing from dino to syn and back due to obsession and 'philosophy' changes) and bought my current car.
Now I'm doing a reasonable maintenance plan; not really worried about it wearing out, actually don't even think about that anymore. I guess I just burned myself out on auto maintenance and I just want something to get me from A to B safely with minimal hassle. Makes me sad to think that I could probably have driven my first car this long (or at least kept that great Civic EX) and banked all those thousands of dollars I wasted. Even now I want to puke when I think about going into a car dealership.
Originally Posted By: Matt89
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
Guilty as charged! My first car I kept for 4 years and didn't know anything about maintenance...took it to JiffyLube every 3K and drove it about 90K miles. Traded it for another car and suddenly I had this obsession with small problems...any squeak, creak or rattle and I was convinced it was a lemon. Traded it for a Civic after only 6 months and lost my shirt. From some sort of guilt complex I started obsessing about oil and maintenance...sucked all the fun out of having a fun little car. Three years later traded that for a larger used Chevy on the pretense of greater 'Safety', but I think I had just come down off the high of obsessing about the Civic, which had about 50K miles and was in absolutely mint condition. Drove the Chevy for about 4.5 years (changed oil probably 15 times, bouncing from dino to syn and back due to obsession and 'philosophy' changes) and bought my current car.
Now I'm doing a reasonable maintenance plan; not really worried about it wearing out, actually don't even think about that anymore. I guess I just burned myself out on auto maintenance and I just want something to get me from A to B safely with minimal hassle. Makes me sad to think that I could probably have driven my first car this long (or at least kept that great Civic EX) and banked all those thousands of dollars I wasted. Even now I want to puke when I think about going into a car dealership.
I'm exactly the same way, kinda burned out on over-maintenance! I know how that goes I did what you did with your Civic to my Integra. My first car was an Altima that I knew nothing about and had only a minor interest in cars and knew nothing about them under the hood, just had it changed every 3k or 12 months, whatever came first (I didn't drive much). Now I know almost everything there is to know about my car and love driving it, and over-maintain it. But, looking back at how much I've spent doing that when the basics would've probably done just as well, I could kick myself.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
Guilty as charged! My first car I kept for 4 years and didn't know anything about maintenance...took it to JiffyLube every 3K and drove it about 90K miles. Traded it for another car and suddenly I had this obsession with small problems...any squeak, creak or rattle and I was convinced it was a lemon. Traded it for a Civic after only 6 months and lost my shirt. From some sort of guilt complex I started obsessing about oil and maintenance...sucked all the fun out of having a fun little car. Three years later traded that for a larger used Chevy on the pretense of greater 'Safety', but I think I had just come down off the high of obsessing about the Civic, which had about 50K miles and was in absolutely mint condition. Drove the Chevy for about 4.5 years (changed oil probably 15 times, bouncing from dino to syn and back due to obsession and 'philosophy' changes) and bought my current car.
Now I'm doing a reasonable maintenance plan; not really worried about it wearing out, actually don't even think about that anymore. I guess I just burned myself out on auto maintenance and I just want something to get me from A to B safely with minimal hassle. Makes me sad to think that I could probably have driven my first car this long (or at least kept that great Civic EX) and banked all those thousands of dollars I wasted. Even now I want to puke when I think about going into a car dealership.
I'm exactly the same way, kinda burned out on over-maintenance! I know how that goes
I did what you did with your Civic to my Integra. My first car was an Altima that I knew nothing about and had only a minor interest in cars and knew nothing about them under the hood, just had it changed every 3k or 12 months, whatever came first (I didn't drive much). Now I know almost everything there is to know about my car and love driving it, and over-maintain it. But, looking back at how much I've spent doing that when the basics would've probably done just as well, I could kick myself.
A couple two or three things contribute to long engine life.
1. Better designed engines (no hot spots) and better metal engineering. Newer engines also come up to operating temperature significantly faster than the cars of 20 years ago.
2. Better oil, and better designed lubrication and filtering systems.
3. Cleaner gasoline. In my mind, this is a major factor. Years ago there was a LOT of carbon in an engine. That carbon worked like micro-fine sandpaper. We used to chisel it off the tops of pistons. Gasoline is so much cleaner these days that there's simply no comparison to the gasoline of days past.
There's less fuel contamination. Engines are fuel-injected, and the fuel pumps cannot leak into the crankcase, as most of them are in the fuel tank.
Don't forget the new, improved, air filtration systems. Also a contributing factor.
Lastly.... gaskets....... When I was a kid, it wasn't unusual for a brand new car to have an oil leak. Seems like everyone had an oil leak. Blown head gaskets were much more common. Intake gasket leaks. Small amounts of anti-freeze in the oil. You get the idea. Gaskets are high-tech these days and work tremendously better than they did 40 years ago.
Isn't technology great?
1. Better designed engines (no hot spots) and better metal engineering. Newer engines also come up to operating temperature significantly faster than the cars of 20 years ago.
2. Better oil, and better designed lubrication and filtering systems.
3. Cleaner gasoline. In my mind, this is a major factor. Years ago there was a LOT of carbon in an engine. That carbon worked like micro-fine sandpaper. We used to chisel it off the tops of pistons. Gasoline is so much cleaner these days that there's simply no comparison to the gasoline of days past.
There's less fuel contamination. Engines are fuel-injected, and the fuel pumps cannot leak into the crankcase, as most of them are in the fuel tank.
Don't forget the new, improved, air filtration systems. Also a contributing factor.
Lastly.... gaskets....... When I was a kid, it wasn't unusual for a brand new car to have an oil leak. Seems like everyone had an oil leak. Blown head gaskets were much more common. Intake gasket leaks. Small amounts of anti-freeze in the oil. You get the idea. Gaskets are high-tech these days and work tremendously better than they did 40 years ago.
Isn't technology great?
Removing lead is the biggest factor of increasing engine life.Better tolerance control and tighter clearances along with better seal material. A real big negative is the aluminum heads and light weight castings .
My father had a 1976 Pontiac Sunbird, 4 banger, with 348K when he sold it back to the dealer. Faithfully did 3k oil changes on "dino".The engine outlasted the car.
Pontiac R&D tore the motor down. Never heard what they found.
johnny
Pontiac R&D tore the motor down. Never heard what they found.
johnny
BMW. Great cars, I've had two small 316s. One 1978 and a 1995. Loved them but did not over maintain them. The 95 was sold two years ago but the 1978 I kept until 99, 21 years!
Now that engine was rebuilt due to oil burn at 140k evidently due to vent seals totally gone! Maybe due to OCI neglect.
It eventually died at 200k during overtaking on the freeway. How? A lifter snapped. Don't think that's because of OCI neglect. Then I scrapped it, but very good engineering.
Mercedes 1980s 200, 240 and 300 seemed to run forever. First they did 300k here and then they were shipped to middle east and did another 300k. The cars are still there, know as Beirut-Benzes..
Now that engine was rebuilt due to oil burn at 140k evidently due to vent seals totally gone! Maybe due to OCI neglect.
It eventually died at 200k during overtaking on the freeway. How? A lifter snapped. Don't think that's because of OCI neglect. Then I scrapped it, but very good engineering.
Mercedes 1980s 200, 240 and 300 seemed to run forever. First they did 300k here and then they were shipped to middle east and did another 300k. The cars are still there, know as Beirut-Benzes..
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Removing lead is the biggest factor of increasing engine life..
I thought lead was supposed to be a "good" thing? Which is why it was added to gasoline in the 1930s and onward? ("New improved Shell, now with Ethyl additive (lead), to make your car run better.")
My car:
- blown head gasket at ~150,000 miles (common problem with 80s-era Dodges; A result of mismatching steel engine with aluminum head)
- valve tap at ~200,000 miles
- I didn't want to spend thousands fixing old car.
- So I kept driving.
- the valve finally "broke off" after I passed 340,000 miles
- engine blown
Used Pennzoil natural for first half of the car's life, and Mobil Delvac 1 for the second half of its life. I think if I had not used Delvac 1, the car would have died sooner.
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.
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My brother's gasoline-powered truck blewup at 100,000 miles. He was towing a camper and driving from PA to North Dakota, doing about 65 he said, when the engine made a loud bang and died. ---- I keep asking him if he did anything "wrong" and he says not. The only possibility I can think of is: He was using the overdrive gear. Could that blow the engine?
So yes.
Engines do sometimes die.
Removing lead is the biggest factor of increasing engine life..
I thought lead was supposed to be a "good" thing? Which is why it was added to gasoline in the 1930s and onward? ("New improved Shell, now with Ethyl additive (lead), to make your car run better.")
My car:
- blown head gasket at ~150,000 miles (common problem with 80s-era Dodges; A result of mismatching steel engine with aluminum head)
- valve tap at ~200,000 miles
- I didn't want to spend thousands fixing old car.
- So I kept driving.
- the valve finally "broke off" after I passed 340,000 miles
- engine blown
Used Pennzoil natural for first half of the car's life, and Mobil Delvac 1 for the second half of its life. I think if I had not used Delvac 1, the car would have died sooner.
.
.
.
My brother's gasoline-powered truck blewup at 100,000 miles. He was towing a camper and driving from PA to North Dakota, doing about 65 he said, when the engine made a loud bang and died. ---- I keep asking him if he did anything "wrong" and he says not. The only possibility I can think of is: He was using the overdrive gear. Could that blow the engine?
So yes.
Engines do sometimes die.
Last edited:
Patman
Staff member
As obsessed as I am with oil, I think a much bigger factor in determining the life of your engine is how you drive it, and most specifically I feel it's how you drive it during the first 5 or 10 minutes after a cold start. If you're the type to drive it hard when the engine is cold, you can definitely expect that engine to wear out sooner than it would if you drove it nice and gentle during that critical warm up time.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
294k and still obsessing. partly a labor of love, and partly avoidance of car payments. That $300+ per month will buy plenty of GC and more than cover my 1991 Camry's maintenance needs. I hope I'm still as anal about having an immaculately maintained machine at 393k.
Regards,
Jeff
I get a kick out of the posters who are obviously anal about their oil. These people are very often the first ones to lose interest in their car long before the engine is ever able to wear out - regardless of the maintenance.
You rarely read of a poster who has 200K on their car obsessing on oil maintenance. By then the love is gone.
294k and still obsessing.
partly a labor of love, and partly avoidance of car payments. That $300+ per month will buy plenty of GC and more than cover my 1991 Camry's maintenance needs. I hope I'm still as anal about having an immaculately maintained machine at 393k.Regards,
Jeff
I've usually purchased new or almost-new base-model cars, obsessed about syn oil, LONG OCI, aggressive preventative maint (coolant, brake fluid, driveline, etc.) Nothing ever broke, and I'd get bored. I'd start adding gauges, aux lighting... and would get ****ed on the resale.
Now I have a 15yr old jeep w/ 235k miles. I have more maintenance now than ever.
1. that engine had to be strong to make it this far. Looks like PO had all brokens fixed, but regular maintenance was likely minimal.
2. Looks like it was allowed to run low on fluids b/c it weeped oil/coolant from hoses, block, rad cap.
3. I'm convinced that if I keep fluids topped and drive easily, it'll last a good while longer. I'm also convinced that if they'd have done the same, it wouldn't weep so much.
4. It's end I suspect will be piston/valve related. a. the oil burning builds up carbon. b. the carbon raises compression-leads to predetonation. (excessive pinging is a daily issue at times) c. snap.
BUT- I recognize that if I go 6 weeks without topping off the fluids, it will self destruct.
I've cleaned the chambers a couple times and it responds well to it. It burns much less oil on HM oils than rotella (current fill is rotella syn/dino mix). Having learned that, need to go back to HM as it gradually loses the rotella. IF I can keep the detonation down, even this engine will likely run for a good while longer.
Sounds like a hassle? It's love/hate. Bored with the hondas, subarus, not bored now. Sometimes wishing I was, but frankly, I'm enjoying the game.
Mike
Now I have a 15yr old jeep w/ 235k miles. I have more maintenance now than ever.
1. that engine had to be strong to make it this far. Looks like PO had all brokens fixed, but regular maintenance was likely minimal.
2. Looks like it was allowed to run low on fluids b/c it weeped oil/coolant from hoses, block, rad cap.
3. I'm convinced that if I keep fluids topped and drive easily, it'll last a good while longer. I'm also convinced that if they'd have done the same, it wouldn't weep so much.
4. It's end I suspect will be piston/valve related. a. the oil burning builds up carbon. b. the carbon raises compression-leads to predetonation. (excessive pinging is a daily issue at times) c. snap.
BUT- I recognize that if I go 6 weeks without topping off the fluids, it will self destruct.
I've cleaned the chambers a couple times and it responds well to it. It burns much less oil on HM oils than rotella (current fill is rotella syn/dino mix). Having learned that, need to go back to HM as it gradually loses the rotella. IF I can keep the detonation down, even this engine will likely run for a good while longer.
Sounds like a hassle? It's love/hate. Bored with the hondas, subarus, not bored now. Sometimes wishing I was, but frankly, I'm enjoying the game.
Mike
I had a brand new Mitsubishi pickup in 1986. I changed the original oil @ 300miles with Valvoline.
Never went over 2500miles on the oil before changing it.
It needed a valve job @35K.
After that the rings went bad. Had to pour oil down the carb to get the compression up so it would start.
The crankshaft broke @ 44k! Actully broke at the 3rd main bearing which destroyed the block.
Never went over 2500miles on the oil before changing it.
It needed a valve job @35K.
After that the rings went bad. Had to pour oil down the carb to get the compression up so it would start.
The crankshaft broke @ 44k! Actully broke at the 3rd main bearing which destroyed the block.
I expect my engine to last longer than the rest of the car but with my luck and track record, I need every bit of help I can get. I don't make a lot of money, I have a $701 car payment on a car that's out of warranty. The last thing I want is to have a non-running car with that kind of payment. The Amsoil gods will probably frown but that's why I change the ACD every 4,500 or less.
Originally Posted By: Patman
As obsessed as I am with oil, I think a much bigger factor in determining the life of your engine is how you drive it, and most specifically I feel it's how you drive it during the first 5 or 10 minutes after a cold start. If you're the type to drive it hard when the engine is cold, you can definitely expect that engine to wear out sooner than it would if you drove it nice and gentle during that critical warm up time.
Also how many miles drivwn when the engine is at operating temps.Which gives the lowest wear per mile as opposed to cold start and warmup wear.
As obsessed as I am with oil, I think a much bigger factor in determining the life of your engine is how you drive it, and most specifically I feel it's how you drive it during the first 5 or 10 minutes after a cold start. If you're the type to drive it hard when the engine is cold, you can definitely expect that engine to wear out sooner than it would if you drove it nice and gentle during that critical warm up time.
Also how many miles drivwn when the engine is at operating temps.Which gives the lowest wear per mile as opposed to cold start and warmup wear.
Yeah, living in a warm (no winter cold temps) instead of a northern cold climate probably increases engine life 300% too.
Warm them up gently as Patman says and up here one can get 300K-400K kms, gotta be consistant and patient in gentle warm up when cold though. A heat pad on tranny, oil pan, a block heater, and 0-30 syn oil help too.
Cyprs
Warm them up gently as Patman says and up here one can get 300K-400K kms, gotta be consistant and patient in gentle warm up when cold though. A heat pad on tranny, oil pan, a block heater, and 0-30 syn oil help too.
Cyprs
What is meant by wear out? I just traded in a 2000 Chrysler van, Mitsu v6 3.0 engine, with 120K. It started consuming oil at 1 qt/1000 miles at about 100,000, and was getting worse. Dura blend oil change every 3 K. Do seals, guides and rings count in "wear out"? All anyone tells me is that oil consumption is normal....something must be "wearing"
I can't keep the bodies of my vehicles from falling apart here in Upstate NY from all of the road salt in the winter time. The 3 cars that I owned the longest were 16, 17, & 18 years old and the engines ran fine but the bodies fell apart and became unsafe even though the undercarrages were undercoated and I kept them as salt free as I could with alot of undercarrage water spraying during the winter time. There was nothing that I could do as the salt will find it's way into the cracks and crevisis that I couldn't see. These were everyday vehicles used for all kinds of family events, vacations, hauling stuff home from the garden stores and other errands.
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