Do engineers not make good money anymore?

[John105]

I'm kinda curious, where does 200-300k come from. It's been many years since I've been up on this stuff, but I wouldn't think the median pay for an engineer is that. Then again, I didn't know CPA partner was 1-3 mil.

Again, if it's money a person is interested, there are so many ways to get that in the USA. But one has to be realistic and accurate too.

 

[The motor guy]

@The motor guy, I'm curious what you made last year. What was your reported income not to the dollar. Like was it $45K, $70K, $105K?

What does my salary have to do with this?

 

[skyactiv]

What does my salary have to do with this?

I own a Ferris stand-on zero turn. I'm retiring down the road at 57 and if I can make money with it why not.

 

[PWMDMD]

Here is some info for 2023.

View attachment 245201

Every year the American Dental Association puts out a similar graphic on dentists' incomes - the numbers always seem absurdly low and nowhere near what I or anyone I know makes per year in dentistry. Not saying this isn't accurate, I have no clue, but I always take these with a grain of salt.

 

[supton]

Isn't that why you have a spec? If customer needs more they need to write it in the spec. Although change orders are often lucrative

Mission Creep is just as big an issue in most technical endeavors. Trying to do more than is required and for which the customer will not pay for. It only has a value if someone will pay for it.

Yes but wings&wheels was pointing out that engineers who rise up and then influence bad decisions help create bad product. They generate that scope statement which seemingly leaves quality out of the requirements. All in an effort to get out the door faster or to meet a desired cost.

Scope creep is always a problem. Last minute change orders can drive people nuts. But if an issue is found at last minute... no one wants to pay for an item twice. The longer the project takes, the larger the potential for changes to be required (or for the entire project mission to change).

 

[The motor guy]

I'm kinda curious, where does 200-300k come from. It's been many years since I've been up on this stuff, but I wouldn't think the median pay for an engineer is that. Then again, I didn't know CPA partner was 1-3 mil.

Again, if it's money a person is interested, there are so many ways to get that in the USA. But one has to be realistic and accurate too.

There was a girl on Facebook always running her mouth about how she made more than most guys being in engineering.

Every year the American Dental Association puts out a similar graphic on dentists' incomes - the numbers always seem absurdly low and nowhere near what I or anyone I know makes per year in dentistry. Not saying this isn't accurate, I have no clue, but I always take these with a grain of salt.

You can't always believe what a person says they make.

 

[supton]

Every year the American Dental Association puts out a similar graphic on dentists' incomes - the numbers always seem absurdly low and nowhere near what I or anyone I know makes per year in dentistry. Not saying this isn't accurate, I have no clue, but I always take these with a grain of salt.

Regional? I presume if it's the "American" Dental Association then it's just America--but it's a pretty big place and all.

 

[PWMDMD]

There was a girl on Facebook always running her mouth about how she made more than most guys being in engineering.

You can't always believe what a person says they make.

Well, one, I employ dentists and speak to other owners who employ dentists so I know what they make. Two, I've seen more accurate numbers from my CPA firm which is based on actual client data of roughly 600 dentists. Three, I see data on sales of practices and their overhead and it isn't hard to ballpark their take home. These three data points are all consistent while the ADA numbers are not.

 

[supton]

There was a girl on Facebook always running her mouth about how she made more than most guys being in engineering.

Someone on the internet running their mouth? say it ain't so!

Did she explain how this came to be? Job hopping, taking classes on the side, taking on the hard projects, always giving 120%? Dressing "appropriately" so as to get noticed and/or DEI driven promotions? Bragging after a 3 martini lunch?

Anyone can say anything these days. Trust me--I wish I was making $200k. But I think those making those kinds of dollars are in high cost of living area. Pay scales with that, that is a factor.

Also: if the job was in the semiconductor or similar tech field, the pay could do that in the good years--and crash down in the bad ones. Semiconductor is notoriously cyclic and a company may have generous bonuses one year with none the next (or layoffs). Am guessing other fields (software? startups?) could well be likewise. One person giving one datapoint might miss that they are a corner case.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Some places also change the titles of positions to look more lucrative and try to attract other talent. My company did that, no more "Supervisors" they are now "Area Managers" but absolutely zero change to the pay or responsibilities.

Our company likes to hire "engineers" especially chemical when what the position actually requires is Human Resources, Psychology, baby sitting experience, interpreter, and sometimes referee.

Petroleum relocation engineer - Gas pumper
Head Sanitation Engineer - Chief Custodian
Etc.

 

[PWMDMD]

Regional? I presume if it's the "American" Dental Association then it's just America--but it's a pretty big place and all.

Yeah, but the CPA firm I use is national. It's actually backward from what you'd expect. Dentists in large metropolitan areas can make less due to more competition while country dentists in the middle of Kansas can make an absolute killing.

 

[skyactiv]

I've always wondered about the dentist offices seen in the bad part of town usually in a crappy office that accepts medicaid patients.

 

[John105]

What I find when people use stats is that they often use average, or mean. Imho median is more useful.

Any town in the USA where median household income is $200k+, can be considered wealthy. Then, one could say, a Chevy Tahoe High Country is $92k. A household that has a $200k income can’t exactly afford a $92k car, so why is it in their driveway at all?

Because that’s a median number that demonstrates a town, say Weston MA, or Greenwich CT, is in fact wealthy overall. Not every driveway has a High Country (median household respectively $250,001 and $276,350).

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here is a song from 40 years ago. “ Fifty thou a year will buy a lot of beer”

 

[javacontour]

Yeah, but the CPA firm I use is national. It's actually backward from what you'd expect. Dentists in large metropolitan areas make less due to more competition while country dentists in the middle of Kansas can make an absolute killing.

One would have to see more to know how much either takes home.

An urban dentist working in another's practice is going to make less, but they don't have the capital costs of owning the practice.

The rural dentist working alone may have more income, but at what cost? Again, the cost of the practice.

Gross vs net is a key question here.

Of course, owning a practice is playing the long game. At some point, one probably sells the practice and cashes out.

Like the US is too big for one number to be meaningful, there are also too many scenarios for that number to be meaningful.

 

[PWMDMD]

One would have to see more to know how much either takes home.

An urban dentist working in another's practice is going to make less, but they don't have the capital costs of owning the practice.

The rural dentist working alone may have more income, but at what cost? Again, the cost of the practice.

Gross vs net is a key question here.

Of course, owning a practice is playing the long game. At some point, one probably sells the practice and cashes out.

Like the US is too big for one number to be meaningful, there are also too many scenarios for that number to be meaningful.

Without getting into it, you'll have to trust me, this is a HUGE topic in dentistry right now with private equity buying-up practices. The past three CE courses I've attended were all about EBIDTA, practice valuations, multiples, and take-home numbers. You see the reasonable trends. Yes, these are generalizations that I bring up to emphasize what most people think is often not true because everyone assumes the small-town dentist isn't killing it, and of course, the Manhattan dentist is making 7 figures. Sure that can be true, but I know of ton of small-town practices looking for associates who are starting associates at $300k plus a % of collections. If they're busy that % collections can double their income.

 

[The motor guy]

Someone on the internet running their mouth? say it ain't so!

Did she explain how this came to be? Job hopping, taking classes on the side, taking on the hard projects, always giving 120%? Dressing "appropriately" so as to get noticed and/or DEI driven promotions? Bragging after a 3 martini lunch?

Anyone can say anything these days. Trust me--I wish I was making $200k. But I think those making those kinds of dollars are in high cost of living area. Pay scales with that, that is a factor.

Also: if the job was in the semiconductor or similar tech field, the pay could do that in the good years--and crash down in the bad ones. Semiconductor is notoriously cyclic and a company may have generous bonuses one year with none the next (or layoffs). Am guessing other fields (software? startups?) could well be likewise. One person giving one datapoint might miss that they are a corner case.

Some type of safety field in the chemical plants I think. Maybe she raked in the OT, but claiming you make $300k/year at like 30 years old is laughable. Even engineers at retirement age only make like 160k. That's what they don't tell you. You'll make 160k after doing it for 30 years and only the last few years before you retire. I was just making sure she looked at dumb as she did, which wasn't hard

 

[The motor guy]

For the record, I did think they easily made 200k, but I guess not. I was surprised when I looked into it

 

[JTK]

The chem-E's in my company, in my area make about $60-70K right out of school. One with a PE cert might make $100K. A little tough with ~$1500/mo rent, car payment, car insurance for a young person, then student loans, etc.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Depends on bonuses, stock options, company equity.