Do engineers not make good money anymore?

[supton]

Don't some U.S. firms utilize engineers from overseas in Poland..?

Not sure about Poland but probably from there too. India I think is the big player now.

If a company wants to be global, having an office in the country being served (or nearby) is important. The bigger the business, the more important it is to have good ties and support. Having not just sales people but engineers local (to help solve problems), in the same time zone, is going to be critical at some point for continued growth.

 

[Hall]

IT has lots of engineers by title, who never went to school for engineering.

Computer science, which is typical for a lot of programmers, falls under "engineering" in many cases.

There are doctors that never went to medical school.

A "doctoral degree" can be obtained by attending school for ~8 years. It's what you get after a master's degree. "Doctor" isn't exclusive to medical practice. In the engineering world, having a doctoral degree isn't uncommon.

Even law, some schools award JDs where the graduate is not able to sit for the bar in any state other than Calif.

Isn't that standard ? Law schools don't teach students for any particular state's bar exam. You get a JD degree then decide where you would like to practice. Then you take that state's bar exam. You can take the bar exam for add'l states too if you desire.

Our school district calls all building maintenance or custodians 'building engineers.'

At my old job, we had the manufacturing site and engineering center (almost) next to each other (walking distance). In the plant, many folks got titles like "Manufacturing engineer" but didn't have BS degrees in an engineering field. At big companies, your job title determines your pay (range) too and the real engineers objected to this, officially. In Ohio, "engineer" along with an add'l term, i.e. industrial, civil, etc is defined legally so they had that argument in their favor:

The title "engineer" in conjunction with another term that modifies the title "engineer" in a manner that conveys the impression that the individual is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum unless the individual is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum.

The real engineers won too.

 

[Pew]

At my old job, we had the manufacturing site and engineering center (almost) next to each other (walking distance). In the plant, many folks got titles like "Manufacturing engineer" but didn't have BS degrees in an engineering field. At big companies, your job title determines your pay (range) too and the real engineers objected to this, officially. In Ohio, "engineer" along with an add'l term, i.e. industrial, civil, etc is defined legally so they had that argument in their favor:

That's understandable. I've realized that the more I delve into company bureaucracy.

 

[Al]

When I started in '69 the going rate for starting salary was the equivalent of $82,000. When I retired after 30 years in 2001 I was making the equivalent of $135,000. Now I had always been in "Engineering" In Power generation. So comparatively I would have been making less than the average engine. I paid for job security.

 

[PWMDMD]

You need to be really smart to be a Chem-E and the schooling is difficult and expensive. $70k is way underpaid for someone that much smarts and schooling.

My wife's friend is a chemical engineer and department head at a local university. She teaches but has also been in industry her entire career and publishes several papers per year. She says she's really good at her job, I'll have to take her word for it.

We go to trivia every week and besides knowing little about anything else, I'm always shocked with how little she knows about science in general. Physics? Not really. Chemistry? Shockingly little for someone who teaches chemical engineering. Biology? She works with plants but doesn't know anything about animal physiology or biochemistry.

She was valedictorian of her high school, her PhD is from an Ivy League school and she has no problem telling everyone in the room she's a chemical engineer and the smartest person in the room and yet, week after week, year after year, she contributes very little, even when the topic is science. She is one of the most obnoxious people I've ever met.

Yes, that felt good....

 

[bunnspecial]

A "doctoral degree" can be obtained by attending school for ~8 years. It's what you get after a master's degree. "Doctor" isn't exclusive to medical practice. In the engineering world, having a doctoral degree isn't uncommon.

A PhD(Doctor of Philosophy) is the original Doctoral Degree. Historically MDs(Medical Doctors) were called "Physicians", a title exclusive to that profession.

8 years after a masters degree would be a really long PhD. Most programs expect you to be done in 5 years, give or take, and you can often be accepted without a masters degree. Generally you'll complete the requirements to earn one along the way.

Are PhDs in engineering common in industry? I have a few friends who I know have one, but I was under the impression that, like a lot of PhDs, the time/benefit isn't necessarily there unless you want to stay in academia...

 

[bunnspecial]

We go to trivia every week and besides knowing little about anything else, I'm always shocked with how little she knows about science in general. Physics? Not really. Chemistry? Shockingly little for someone who teaches chemical engineering. Biology? She works with plants but doesn't know anything about animal physiology or biochemistry.

This is a bit of a sore topic for me, but as a chemist, I hear a lot of people conflating chemical engineering and pure chemistry. I've also had MANY conversions with ChemEs where they were blatantly wrong about a chemistry topic but utterly convinced that they had to be correct because they're a ChemE. Not pointing fingers at your wife specifically, just years of having to deal with the same scenario a lot.

Many ChemE curricula only require general chemistry, one semester of organic, and one semester of physical chemistry for admission. This isn't(or shouldn't) be enough education for a minor in chemistry at any reputable school. Chemical engineering tends to be less about the chemistry and more about process design/control.

That's not to say ChemEs aren't great at what they know, just that most don't actually know the chemistry behind what they're doing.

 

[Hall]

8 years after a masters degree would be a really long PhD.

Not what I said

Are PhDs in engineering common in industry?

Maybe "common" wasn't the best word but in larger companies, you're bound to find a few. I can't say I've ever heard known of someone with a masters in engineering. What is more common after a BS is getting a "P.E." certification/accredidation. They are issued by the state (you live in) and require passing a test of some sort.

 

[bunnspecial]

Not what I said

Sorry, totally misread that. I apologize.

 

[Hall]

When I started in '69 the going rate for starting salary was the equivalent of $82,000. When I retired after 30 years in 2001 I was making the equivalent of $135,000. Now I had always been in "Engineering" In Power generation. So comparatively I would have been making less than the average engine. I paid for job security.

Elizabethtown PA ? IDP ?

 

[Pew]

She is one of the most obnoxious people I've ever met.

Yes, that felt good....

That's me whenever I talk about my older sister LOL

 

[PWMDMD]

This is a bit of a sore topic for me, but as a chemist, I hear a lot of people conflating chemical engineering and pure chemistry. I've also had MANY conversions with ChemEs where they were blatantly wrong about a chemistry topic but utterly convinced that they had to be correct because they're a ChemE. Not pointing fingers at your wife specifically, just years of having to deal with the same scenario a lot.

Many ChemE curricula only require general chemistry, one semester of organic, and one semester of physical chemistry for admission. This isn't(or shouldn't) be enough education for a minor in chemistry at any reputable school. Chemical engineering tends to be less about the chemistry and more about process design/control.

That's not to say ChemEs aren't great at what they know, just that most don't actually know the chemistry behind what they're doing.

I'm not going to disagree. I'm a dentist but my undergrad degree was in biology with a concentration in biochemistry/immunology and I was one class shy of a double major in chemistry (advanced inorganic was only offered every other year and I was already heading to dental school). I was also a straight-A student including Orgo (I TA'd that for two years) and P-chem (I slogged my way through QM second semester) and because I wasn't a chem engineering major and I'm a dentist, she assumes, I'm an idiot. I can still draw you an SN2 rxn and talk about inversion of configuration and leaving groups or talk about T-cell activation vs tolerance induction or a ton of other topics and she doesn't seem to remember any of it. We actually had a bonus science question about molarity vs normality, a 1M solution of H2SO4 would be a what normal solution? She had no idea. She has clearly had too much of the Kool-Aid and she has been told her entire career chemical engineers are the smartest. We have another friend who teaches physics at the college level and SHE IS LEGIT. She is the real deal and seems to not only remember everything but her ability to reason her way through questions is impressive.

 

[Rmay635703]

You need to be really smart to be a Chem-E and the schooling is difficult and expensive. $70k is way underpaid for someone that much smarts and schooling.

You will find that people who do the most make the least in general.
Some of the most intelligent people in the world are paupers.
Some extremely technical fields that require extensive schooling have more underpaid positions than not.

Don't some U.S. firms utilize engineers from overseas in Poland..?

Name a country and your statement is likely true.

About 10-15 years ago lots of highly skilled Eastern Europeans (all trades) were quite common in many hi tech design/production houses, even some former Russians (Not a conspiracy, they weld well)

US attracts foreign talent from all over the world with a couple stereotypes ringing true. This isn’t really new.

Their wages are stagnating. I saw a leaked hr document online about two years ago of their wages dated 2010 and they basically haven't been paid more compared to today.

My father late 70’s early 80’s made pretty close to what I do today but he was an electrician.

You will find a lot of industries in the distant past where you had more folks breaking up into the high end pay doing rather basic jobs that today likely wouldn’t make more doing the same job.

Overall outside financial, managerial entrepreneurial, investment and specific niches everyone else is getting crushed into similar pay ranges with less variation than there once was for the bottom 97% of wage earners.

 

[The motor guy]

Because you think $200,000 to $300,000 is “good money”.

When the average family of four is getting by with two incomes that together, total $115,000.

So, each of them is making just under $60,000.

Which means “good money” for most of use would be $100,000 and up.

They go to college for like 8 years. I said $70k is good money.

 

[zyxelenator]

200k-300k pay level is definitely a thing for various IT engineers/architects/managers in high cost of living areas like Bay Area, New York and Austin. But again, usually base salary is around 150-200k cash the rest comes from bonuses and stocks…

 

[zyxelenator]

200k-300k pay level is definitely a thing for various IT engineers/architects/managers in high cost of living areas like Bay Area, New York and Austin. But again, usually base salary is around 150-200k cash the rest comes from bonuses and stocks…

In top tech companies(google, meta, netflix, amazon and similar) Others are slacking behind.

 

[CarLuver]

200k-300k pay level is definitely a thing for various IT engineers/architects/managers in high cost of living areas like Bay Area, New York and Austin. But again, usually base salary is around 150-200k cash the rest comes from bonuses and stocks…

my nephews friend who got a job at FB last year got $200k and bonuses like stock options right out of college. But in my area , where million dollar houses are a dime a dozen, $200k don't really go that far.

 

[skyactiv]

Why are we worrying and discussing what engineers make? If $200k doesn't go far in a high cost area as someone pointed out, there are plenty jobs that don't even pay 1/4 of that even in high cost of living areas. How do people in SF, NY or Austin live on $50K a year?

 

[y_p_w]

Computer science, which is typical for a lot of programmers, falls under "engineering" in many cases.

Depends. Where I went to school, there is the computer science major as a part of the College of Letters and Sciences. And that's a very broad college that includes liberal arts majors like English or history.

My undergrad major was "electrical engineering and computer sciences". And yes that's the full name of the major. I'm not much of a computer programmer and don't have to be. But one of the options for the major includes a computer science option. However, many of the required classes are in the L&S computer science department.

In grad school we had a specific "computer engineering" major, but it could be the same as electrical enginering. Many of the classes were specified as both electrical engineering and computer engineering.

 

[Dave Hess]

Why are we worrying and discussing what engineers make? If $200k doesn't go far in a high cost area as someone pointed out, there are plenty jobs that don't even pay 1/4 of that even in high cost of living areas.
How do people in SF, NY or Austin live on $50K a year?

Married with 2 incomes.