Do these statistics include the private school kids? Would be interesting to subject the private school kids to the same series of testing and compare.
Disturbing trends in education ...
- Thread starter dnewton3
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It's all made up
My wife taught elementary education in a "poor area for years". My two daughter-in-laws currently teach. If you are going in to education with an "idealistic view" you won't last long. GON-won't see this-I'm blocked. Maybe somebody else can pass it along......
dnewton3
Staff member
I appreciate all the comments, from several points of view.
I don't know that injecting more money into the public systems is the answer. If it were, we'd not be losing ground. The US systems as a whole have had literally hundreds of millions of dollars of increases, and yet here we are, still floundering. I would agree that increasing teacher pay may attract a few more folks into the system, but that's a short term fix. Well paying jobs can still suck and make people want to leave that profession. Moderate paying jobs where people are happy in their work make for long term employees. Paying teachers more isn't the whole solution; it goes much deeper than that.
As for the scoring system, the changes typically move by tenths of a point. The fact that things are moving in a continuing trend downward, and approaching the levels of the 1970s, means there's been serious degradation in math and language skills. I cannot say how much, but I'm sure it's just a Google search away ... LMGTFY ...
And to make the conundrum even worse, school years get longer, but kids apparently are getting "dumber" (my words). When I went to class, you started school after Labor Day and got out before Memorial Day. Now, kids are in school for about 10 months of the year in my area; yet the scores degrade.
My point is that we have decades of data showing that pouring money into the education hole, and demanding more of the students time, nets no improvement and even results in deficits. If money and time could fix this education problem, it should have done so by now. So I don't really accept that money and more time are the answer.
In my OPINION there is not a single answer, but several things do need to change:
* teacher pay should be performance based and not tenure based
* no increase of money, in any way, should go into feeding the beast; keep the money away from "management"
* parents need to take back control of raising their kids, but that also means they have the DUTY to do so; they need to be parents of the kids and not friends with the kids. Parents need to toughen up their kids and the best way to do that is to not cut them slack.
* school boards should focus on data and results, not hyperbole and "feelings"
* keep the curriculums to core stuff, not fluff. The good old "three Rs" as it were, with some basic history and civics also
* offer (but do not mandate) some life-skill courses like personal money management and credit development; kids won't learn this from parents who can't do it at home
I don't know that injecting more money into the public systems is the answer. If it were, we'd not be losing ground. The US systems as a whole have had literally hundreds of millions of dollars of increases, and yet here we are, still floundering. I would agree that increasing teacher pay may attract a few more folks into the system, but that's a short term fix. Well paying jobs can still suck and make people want to leave that profession. Moderate paying jobs where people are happy in their work make for long term employees. Paying teachers more isn't the whole solution; it goes much deeper than that.
As for the scoring system, the changes typically move by tenths of a point. The fact that things are moving in a continuing trend downward, and approaching the levels of the 1970s, means there's been serious degradation in math and language skills. I cannot say how much, but I'm sure it's just a Google search away ... LMGTFY ...
And to make the conundrum even worse, school years get longer, but kids apparently are getting "dumber" (my words). When I went to class, you started school after Labor Day and got out before Memorial Day. Now, kids are in school for about 10 months of the year in my area; yet the scores degrade.
My point is that we have decades of data showing that pouring money into the education hole, and demanding more of the students time, nets no improvement and even results in deficits. If money and time could fix this education problem, it should have done so by now. So I don't really accept that money and more time are the answer.
In my OPINION there is not a single answer, but several things do need to change:
* teacher pay should be performance based and not tenure based
* no increase of money, in any way, should go into feeding the beast; keep the money away from "management"
* parents need to take back control of raising their kids, but that also means they have the DUTY to do so; they need to be parents of the kids and not friends with the kids. Parents need to toughen up their kids and the best way to do that is to not cut them slack.
* school boards should focus on data and results, not hyperbole and "feelings"
* keep the curriculums to core stuff, not fluff. The good old "three Rs" as it were, with some basic history and civics also
* offer (but do not mandate) some life-skill courses like personal money management and credit development; kids won't learn this from parents who can't do it at home
[QUOTE="I "They don't much anything..."
[/QUOTE]
Hey I'm old.........good catch. Proof reading is critical to science and math!
[/QUOTE]
Hey I'm old.........good catch. Proof reading is critical to science and math!
I agree with most of your observation, but I can tell you why these wont' or don't work
The money they have been injecting has gone to fancy facilities, software, and other non productive assets. You can't let academics manage money. They waste it.
I am not against pay for performance, thats how I am paid - but the issue is my kids showed up to school on day 1 and could already pass the end of year NCLB assessment. Other kids show up with no sleep and haven't eaten since they left school last fall. The good teachers will simply migrate to the best schools, or simply leave. Every one wants pay for performance, but each teacher has a different set of kids. No one wants to acknowledge this. The best pitching coach ever in history can't teach me to throw a 90mph fastball, because I just can't.
Typos are a sign of a lack of education?
I was joking, it reminded me of Another Brick in the Wall.
Here's a view, most of which isn't highly accurate but has more than reasonable merit.
Students rule the classrooms.
Faculty cannot discipline students.
Cellphones are allowed in class, students participate in social media during class.
Students are more engaged and at the same time, concerned about others sharing posts, pics, vids of other students...way, way more focus than the necessary school curriculum.
Students don't pay attention, then get poor grades.
Almost half the students do poorly on quizzes and tests.
School has to compensate for the bell curve.
Here's my take...
Have mandatory assembly before the school year. Parents in the gym or wherever the assembly point is.
Inform them that cell phone use will not be tolerated unless case of grave emergency...ie, medical, school breach, etc.
Students don't need to be the moderator between teacher and office, can't think of a time where the office couldn't announce or locate a student in school if they needed to be picked up.
Basically, the school system has caved to parents and students resulting in a "runaway behavior".
Students rule the classrooms.
Faculty cannot discipline students.
Cellphones are allowed in class, students participate in social media during class.
Students are more engaged and at the same time, concerned about others sharing posts, pics, vids of other students...way, way more focus than the necessary school curriculum.
Students don't pay attention, then get poor grades.
Almost half the students do poorly on quizzes and tests.
School has to compensate for the bell curve.
Here's my take...
Have mandatory assembly before the school year. Parents in the gym or wherever the assembly point is.
Inform them that cell phone use will not be tolerated unless case of grave emergency...ie, medical, school breach, etc.
Students don't need to be the moderator between teacher and office, can't think of a time where the office couldn't announce or locate a student in school if they needed to be picked up.
Basically, the school system has caved to parents and students resulting in a "runaway behavior".
It was good. Funny I just listened to the whole LP yesterday.
Seriously my mind goes before my fingers. And I obviously need to slow down and actually read what I write. Doesn't help when I'm tired from manual labor outside and haven't had my school lunch.
MolaKule
Staff member
Here is another statistic for Percent Growth of Population in public Schools, 2000-2019 from the Center for Education Statistics; U.S. Dept. of Education:
Student Growth - 7.4%
Teachers - 8.7%
Administration - 87.6%
So you can see that the education budget has to go toward more Administration personnel than any other category.
I have two main reasons why this would be so:
1) Salaries for top Adm. positions such as Principals are about 4X that for teachers;
2) Additional personnel are needed to administrate the myriad of Title XX Fed program regulations in order to keep within the guidelines of those programs and which have to be maintained when local school boards accept Federal Monies.
Solutions: Do not accept any Federal monies, trim from the top down, pay teachers based on performance rather than tenure. and discourage membership in teachers unions.
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It was good. Funny I just listened to the whole LP yesterday.
Seriously my mind goes before my fingers. And I obviously need to slow down and actually read what I write. Doesn't help when I'm tired from manual labor outside and haven't had my school lunch.
Same here, in fact that post I had to edit because I typed be instead of me.
The public schools around here are tops in the nation. The school at the end of the street has earned, "A California Distinguished School" designation.
Means basically nothing. Your entire statement.
A few local decent schools in a sea of poop and a California award? Yay.
You might be surprised.
I don’t doubt your local schools are good.
The "more money" aspect is too general. What is the money being spent on? It is not the amount; it is the use of the money.
Performance based pay is another generalization. Often this leads to teaching to the test.
It is a complicated issue.
Performance based pay is another generalization. Often this leads to teaching to the test.
It is a complicated issue.
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