Disaster at work. Comments welcome.

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: moribundman


Originally Posted By: Chris142
The 2 heater connections are plastic. I was very carefull not to break it since it's going to be brittle after 150K miles.

Not telling you how to do your job, but these parts should have been replaced in my opinion. I am aware that customers may say, "Those old parts are just fine, I'm not paying for new ones." It's a conundrum that comes with the territory. [censored] if you replace the parts, [censored] if you don't. If you see a part that needs to be replaced, the customer should be made aware. If horshit (= he or she or it -- it was a proposed word once) refuses, make horshit sign a waiver releasing you from liability should the part(s) in question fail. I realize that's probably not going to sit well with 95% of customers and thus bad for business.

I hope this works out without the ship hitting the fan.


The 2 plastic fittings are part of the heater core it's self. This would involve replacing the heater core which is a 7+ hr job.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
What happens if your boss tells you that her lawyer called and you gotta buy her a new engine ?

I'm not a lawyer but I do know that I can't be held liable unless It was proven beyond a doubt that I caused the problem on purpose.

I have known my boss most of my life and he wouldn't do anything like that. Plus I know too much about his personel life

I bet that the new radiator cap that allowed the system to build 13lbs of pressure after it had not had pressure in it for who knows how long could have caused to weakest link to break. That being the brittle heater hose fitting.

 

[Drew99GT]

All you can do is document everything you did - the tow truck service, the calls you placed to her, the messages you left. You're in the clear and totally did the right thing. Any other shop would have told her to tow it in at her expense.

The fact you left a message telling her not to drive it and that a tow truck was coming ends any liability you have IMO.

Just don't mention anything about those heater core fittings!!! (seriously

) But do mention also that you pressure tested the system for 10 minutes!

 

[TooManyWheels]

I think it is time to engage a lawyer quickly, because I see the following catch 22.

By rights, you are not responsible for the damage, but if push comes to shove, you may be found to be. If you do have to pay for engine work, you want to be sure you are not taken advantage of, so you would want a neutral, third party garage to be involved. But following, or mentioning, that course might be taken as your admitting liability, which is opposite of what you truly believe.

I would want an attorney to steer me through that minefield.

 

[Shannow]

I hate plastic in cooling systems.

The fitting may not have broken off...I've seen the plastic "creep" under the hoseclamp, becoming deformed as it tries to expand more than the clamp and gets deformed. Then breaks at the weakened area.

Good luck Chris. The fact that you called a tow and she still drove it will benefit you when it comes to battle stations.

 

[sprintman]

My Mazda had a plastic topped radiator. I could see gren coolant on the raditor but no crack visible. Finally it was visible so new top for the radiator. Drove me nuts that coolant leak..s

 

[Kestas]

Your action depends on how far she (and her lawyer) pushes the issue. There's a lot of good advice posted above.

If you're notified in writing, answer back in writing everything you've told us.

If it goes to court, arm yourself with documents to support all of your arguments.

You probably did more than the average mechanic would have done for such a service. In the future - like mori said - make the customer painfully aware of the problem with old plastic parts before commencing work. Let them decide if they want to take a chance with you working on their embrittled parts.

There are some mechanics who flatly refuse to work on old cars for this very reason... you end up breaking expensive parts (or fasteners in the rust belt) while doing relatively simple tasks.

 

[Steve S]

I hate plastic and electronics.

 

[addyguy]

You did the right thing(s), and tried to remedy this situation as best as you could.

Problem is, none of that matters. All an outsider is going to see is some 'poor, helpless' woman left stranded on the road by some 'slimy mechanic', and you're done for. Seen it more times than I can count, in the short time I was in a garage at W-M.

You, or the place you work, WILL end up replacing this engine, whether you want to or not. Sorry to be the cynical, bitter voice here, but be prepared.

This IS NOT an attack on you, Chris. From what I haver seen of you on this forum, you are an honest, nice, easy-going guy who would not screw anyone. This really sucks!

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: addyguy

You, or the place you work, WILL end up replacing this engine, whether you want to or not. Sorry to be the cynical, bitter voice here, but be prepared.


I really don't think so. If Chris can document all the things he did, I don't see how he can be held liable. He certainly can't be found to be negligent.

 

[TooManyWheels]

His shop is in a difficult spot, but there are also some obvious things in his favor. Unless she lies about them later (very possible of course) she admitted that the temp gauge was in the red. If by some chance she did not know what that meant (not likely, she had already made a trouble call) she could have easily made another. Their seems to be plenty of evidence of malfeasance on her part.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Knowing when to drive or not drive a vehicle is a basic qualification for getting behind the wheel.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
There are some mechanics who flatly refuse to work on old cars for this very reason... you end up breaking expensive parts (or fasteners in the rust belt) while doing relatively simple tasks.


Very true. Both of my buddies in the trade don't even like doing it for understanding customers. One's a very picky older wrench. The other a leading edge hot dog (he even has a NASCAR winner circle conversational pattern like he needs to fit in all the sponsor's names with your exchange of information). When they see, like they've seen too many times before, a "never ending story" ...they always comment "they need to get rid of that piece of blank". They know that they'll put good work and the customer will put good money into it ..and then another major component will soon fatigue.

 

[mechtech2]

Being in the business, we get this from time to time.
"Those dents [and rust spots] were not there when I brought the car in!"

But courts are funny [NOT!].
One of our trade magazines told of a shop that replaced an engine with a customer supplied one -no repairs.
Two YEARS later the fuel pump on it went out, arguments led to court, and the judge made the shop pay for an engine replacement!

I replaced a leaking heater hose, per the customers request to "Fix the leak.". A day later, the infuriated customer called saying the engine overheated, and coolant was all over. The cause was a bad head gasket. This is not something that showed up, or was looked for when complying with his original easy job/request.
We had to eat a tow truck pick up.
People only want the minimum done, for as cheap as possible, and "It only has to last for a year or two.". When someone says that, we smile because we know it will be around a long time. Then several years later, they want perfection.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I replaced a leaking heater hose, per the customers request to "Fix the leak.". A day later, the infuriated customer called saying the engine overheated, and coolant was all over. The cause was a bad head gasket. This is not something that showed up, or was looked for when complying with his original easy job/request.

years ago, I brought my GTI to my regular mechanic to have some new KYB struts installed; I supplied them. I asked them to check out the strut bearings while they were in there.
I pick it up, drive it down the street, knocking like crazy in the front- bad strut bearings. I drive it right back, one of the 2 brothers that owns the shops says 'yeah, my brother just does what the customer asks for when they bring in their own parts'.
they could have just said the strut bearings were bad and I would say go ahead replace them.
anyway, they didn't do alignments anyway, so I found a new shop, been going there now more than 10 years. point being, some shops don't give a schiete anymore because of bad customer experiences.
in the OP's case, it sounds like you'll have to get a lawyer or see what your insurance will cover. alot of times they'd rather settle than go to court, which could take a few years.
as for people not knowing what to do w/ an overheated car, I know a lady who breaks her old cars all the time. her and her husband on disability, doesn't drive anywhere but to the various doctors, but ruins her cars. the last one, a nice grand am her daughter gave her, overheated, wrecked the engine. she KNEW it would run hot, but, in her words, " I drove it on a few short trips anyway".

 

[Chris142]

Well here's some more of the story. The lady's husband is very understanding. He knows that she made a minor setback into a major problem.

He is willing to work with us. We are going to R-N-R the heater for them. That I do know.

His father works at a wrecking yard and he's confident that he can get a replacement engine for the truck. And since the guys that work there are very familiar with pulling engines he will have them do it. I'm sure we will foot some or most of that bill.

So far it's not the end of the world as long as things work out as planned.

EDIT: The shop that she drove it to that found the broken heater fitting said that it will crumble between your fingers! They said that when I tightened the clamp it must have damaged it inside the hose.

 

[Gary Allan]

Ah ...civility and reasonable expectation prevail

 

[Audi Junkie]

Hmm. How can I say this? "Preventative" maintenance? Some old timers say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Definately mechanics have to walk a thin line, but a drain and fill might have produced a better result...in hindsight.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
The shop that she drove it to that found the broken heater fitting said that it will crumble between your fingers! They said that when I tightened the clamp it must have damaged it inside the hose.


Maybe their mechanic crushed the fitting when he turned righty-loosey!

 

[NJC]

I'd be expecting to hear a "go pound sand" exhortation if I tried to return a vehicle as per Chris142 and mechtech's stories.