Been using Motorcraft FL-1A filters on my various Volvo 240s for awhile. This filter is probably at least half again as big as the stock Volvo or Mann filter. Anyway, discovered a disadvantage to oversize oil filters when I was changing the oil on my '85 245 (223K) today. And that's when you drop the d**n thing when you're taking it off (full of course), and it rolls all the way down the driveway under the car, dumping used oil as it goes! Let me tell you, those FL-1As hold a good bit of oil! And now I've got a nice long stain in my driveway.
Disadvantage of oversize oil filter
- Thread starter Mike242GT
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Nice.
The only bad thing I've heard was from Steve Seekins, et al (Former President of VCOA) - they said a big pooch like the Fl-1A would create some strange vibrations in the engine
I asked about this YEARS ago on the now defunct VCOA listserve, and have asked on the BB, but no solid answer.
The other issue with a huge filter is the increased likelyhood, in the case of soggy motor mounts, is the possible contact with the steel mount holders. See stain in driveway.
The only bad thing I've heard was from Steve Seekins, et al (Former President of VCOA) - they said a big pooch like the Fl-1A would create some strange vibrations in the engine
The other issue with a huge filter is the increased likelyhood, in the case of soggy motor mounts, is the possible contact with the steel mount holders. See stain in driveway.
One disadvantage of a non-spec filter is that the filter maker may stiff you if the filter fails and you try to make a claim against them. They can rightfully say, "that filter is not specified for your engine."
The force on a surface, for example the oil filter canister, is the area times the pressure. An oversized filter has more surface area on the canister, so there's more force trying to rupture it.
Ken
The force on a surface, for example the oil filter canister, is the area times the pressure. An oversized filter has more surface area on the canister, so there's more force trying to rupture it.
Ken
Another disadvantage is the tire possibly rubbing against the oversize filter, which I think is happening to me.
My 03 Maxima has a tiny oil filter - looks like it belongs on a lawn mower. Go to the store, look for the tiniest filter on the shelf, and that's mine. I've upsized opon the advice of some of the guys on maxima.org, but now I think I hear a faint rub - I also upsized my tires slightly from 215 to 225. I upsized my tires before the filter - no rub before the filter upsize.
I'm going to switch back to OE size for this reason and the warranty issues. I don't really want to second guess the Nissan engineers, but, dang that thing is tiny!
My 03 Maxima has a tiny oil filter - looks like it belongs on a lawn mower. Go to the store, look for the tiniest filter on the shelf, and that's mine. I've upsized opon the advice of some of the guys on maxima.org, but now I think I hear a faint rub - I also upsized my tires slightly from 215 to 225. I upsized my tires before the filter - no rub before the filter upsize.
I'm going to switch back to OE size for this reason and the warranty issues. I don't really want to second guess the Nissan engineers, but, dang that thing is tiny!
In the past I've read a comment or two about vibrations eminating from oversize filters as well, but am at a loss to see how this would relate to filter size. Wix filters have coil springs at the dome end to locate the cartridge in place, instead of a cheaper, arched sheet metal spring. A Wix filter spec sheet mentions that the coil spring is less likely to "rattle in overpressure." Perhaps the flat spring can act like a "wing" and flutter with high oil flow over it? If so, I'm not sure how this would relate to SIZE of the filter, unless a larger shell would simply allow more oil flowing over the "wing," and therefore more flutter...? A switch to a different brand of oversize would likely fix that problem.
As an extension to Ken2's comment, going oversize can also potentially void an engine warranty since such filters are not "factory replacements." So I would always use a brand the dealer is not intimately familiar with. If I owned a GM product, for example, I would never oversize with an AC Delco filter during the warranty period -- it's too easy for the dealer to notice the discrepancy. Better to use an oversize Wix, Purolator, etc. for that vehicle, I would think.
The ultimate goal would be for a filter to have both fine filtration and no more flow restriction than an open steel pipe. Flow through a cartridge the size of a wedding ring would be disasterous, while a cartridge the size of a 2 liter soda bottle would get us much closer to our flow goal of "open steel pipe." Little flow restriction = little impact on what the oil pump's trying to accomplish = little impact on oil pressure = oil pressure "issue" is irrelevant if it the filter flows well, correct..?
As an extension to Ken2's comment, going oversize can also potentially void an engine warranty since such filters are not "factory replacements." So I would always use a brand the dealer is not intimately familiar with. If I owned a GM product, for example, I would never oversize with an AC Delco filter during the warranty period -- it's too easy for the dealer to notice the discrepancy. Better to use an oversize Wix, Purolator, etc. for that vehicle, I would think.
The ultimate goal would be for a filter to have both fine filtration and no more flow restriction than an open steel pipe. Flow through a cartridge the size of a wedding ring would be disasterous, while a cartridge the size of a 2 liter soda bottle would get us much closer to our flow goal of "open steel pipe." Little flow restriction = little impact on what the oil pump's trying to accomplish = little impact on oil pressure = oil pressure "issue" is irrelevant if it the filter flows well, correct..?
Another concern with larger than stock oil filters- could they cause a drop in oil pressure?
Larger area of media exposed to the oil should mean less drop in oil pressure.
The whole idea of a larger filter is more filter area giving a lower pressure drop through the filter. Theory is, more area, more flow, and more oil to the engine giving higher pressure. Caution, different brands of oil filters may be constructed differently. Some huge filters have dinky little elements in them, and some media is better than other. Most OEM's are good.
Just looked at my truck. Its pressure sensor may be before the oil filter. If so, a less restrictive filter would give a lower pressure at the gage, but a higher pressure at the bearings.
Vibration w/oversized filters.......
I don't know, but on our Volvo, the filter sits sideways (90 degrees from verticle). It also sits at the front of the engine right near the harmonic balancer.
It could be that when you (use a much larger than stock filter), you get that much mass moving up and down it creates it's own counterbalance and hence a vibration. ?
Just a thought.
DEWFPO
I don't know, but on our Volvo, the filter sits sideways (90 degrees from verticle). It also sits at the front of the engine right near the harmonic balancer.
It could be that when you (use a much larger than stock filter), you get that much mass moving up and down it creates it's own counterbalance and hence a vibration. ?
Just a thought.
DEWFPO
A filter must 'meet or exceed' the manufacturers requirements. Let the dealer prove that the oversized did not. They can't!
Just make sure that the filter has an ADBV if required, and the correct parallel bypass pressure if needed. Most filter websites list this info when comparing sizes.
Vibration from an oil filter? I doubt it.
Just make sure that the filter has an ADBV if required, and the correct parallel bypass pressure if needed. Most filter websites list this info when comparing sizes.
Vibration from an oil filter? I doubt it.
The dealer isn't involved if you use an aftermarket filter--the filter maker is on the hook for the cost of repairs if the filter caused the damage. Look into the filter maker's catalog. If it's not the filter recommended for that engine, why would anybody stand behind it? Ask any filter maker...they'll say to use only the filter they list for your engine. If you try to get them to pay for damage when you used a non-recommended filter, they'll weasel out saying that you used the wrong filter.
Ken
[ November 15, 2003, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]
The vibe thing was on Volvo L4's with filter screwed in the side of the block (perpindicular to the cylinders as many inline engines have) - when an extra large filter, full of oil, starts...well I never have seen it either but these guys said it happens
Hey tottaled, i got a 03 maxima also, and i went with a oversized filter as well, the mobil 1 105 one.
The stock filter is waaaay small like u said.
The stock filter is waaaay small like u said.
About 10yrs ago, IPD sold an oversized filter for Volvo red blocks. They claimed improved capacity, increased filtration....bla,bla,bla. Anyway, I bought a few of them to try out. The 1st thing I noticed was how close the bigger filter was to the RH engine mount. If your engine mounts are in good shape its not a problem. However, Volvo 240s aren't known for eng. mount longevity and it was just an accident waiting to happen. The other thing I noticed was how my oil light would stay on longer during start up. That scared me, so I went back the good 'ol Mann filters. IPD stopped selling the larger filters eventually.
I have a 02 Max and use the oversize Bosch 3320. It is the same size and dimensions as the M1-105.
Pedro
Pedro
Yes, you do need to watch mechanical or heat problems. Which side of the filter was the pressure sending unit? The oil may have been going to the bearings rather than the pressure gage.
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