Why? How would it differ or be better than what they do now?
Direct sales of EVs
- Thread starter Burt
- Start date
the UAW only represents the employees at the factories.. That is all they have ever represented. so no change on that front no matter what the corporation does..
As far as the other thing regarding franchising.
American setup is one way which goes back to the early years
the Japanese have a different way in the US than the Americans that revolves around some large distributor/importers
and then a dealer franchise system.
now me, I think Tesla should be allowed to sell the cars anyway they want
since they are still a boutique brand it might still work for them
but if they ever reach the market penetration the old line automakers have
that business model might not work for them anymore.
You need to be willing to wait for them to come and pick up your Tesla and haul it wherever they work on the car
and then haul it back..
yeah, 50 states with 50 different sets of rules.
I grew up in MI, basically it seemed anyplace that sold beer also sold liquor but it wasn't overlaoded with alcohol sales, just wasn't on every corner.
Kentucky, Dry Counties.
Ontario Provincial beer and ale store and provincial liquor stores, which were separate.
Floriduh... they sell beer everywhere( I mean everywhere too not as an expression but every where).
guy used to sell beer in the local bait shop.
my barber used to sell beer. not kidding.
first business intersection near me has about ten businesses , and I know at least five of them sell beer.
, but liquor sales are few and far between.
back to dealer networks.. LOL
Nordstom has has maybe 10 times the profit margin of Amazon. Who makes the most money?
Tesla wasnt even profitable until 2020 and even then it wasnt because of the vehicles. 2021 started to be and last year was the first significant profit.
That is not a long term history. Let's give it ten years. So far, Tesla best year barely if at all matches GM's worst year out of the last ten years.
Also as an investment, GM (assuming the UAW doesnt put them out of business) can work on and implement Tesla's manufacturing process as others are doing.
Meaning with GMs volume small increases in productivity = huge gains in profit, they have a long way to go. (again, assuming the UAW doesnt put them out of business *LOL*)
Let's not forget 15% of Tesla's profit comes from the USA taxpayer. None of GMs profit comes from the USA taxpayer (except a fraction of a fraction currently) Tax rebates will not be forever.
But I don't have to wait for someone to come pick up my car. I have two service centers within 40 miles which is about how far I have to drive to buy anything outside of the big 3, but I can’t pick up a new car from those locations because of state law.
You really believe that? So government fleets are all Ford and Chrysler?
I know my local city use Bolt as fleet cars instead of Tesla.
me , I dont have a Tesla, but I see em around.
I also see them on a flat bed..
you are exactly right... Mopar and Ford both have the largest portion of police sales, but when it comes to just about anything else guvmint buys on low bid, if it is truly a competitive bidding process not fudged to one particular favorite, you see all of the brands in guvmint service.
Having been on the inside and close enough to the low but competitive bidding process, there are ways to get exactly what you want if you know what to spec... say GM offers a 320 hp V8 with a 8 speed auto but you don't want a GM , you spec that you want a minimum of 350 hp turbocharged 6 cylinder gasoline with a ten speed auto.. that stuff goes on all the time.
I remember Boeing and Airbus got into some mid-air refuel planes drama with the US military and it was on the news all over the world...... Kind of disappointing when they can't keep these kind of corruption under the radar (obviously every country has it) and have to let the whole world knows about it on the news.
As you know this is probably location specific. I bet you have way fewer Tesla in Wisconsin than say in Santa Clara California. At my home I can walk to a Toyota dealer and maybe bike to a Tesla "service center" but Ford and GM I would probably have to drive 5 miles. If Tesla can build a supercharger network they can build an efficient dealer network themselves, just that the numbers won't work out so they don't.
Oops should have said 50% not 15%
The Caltrans facility I drive by on my way to work has a single Tesla here. I’ve seen it driving once or twice, it does have an Caltrans graphic on it, so it’s not an employees car. otherwise it’s just sitting there. Not charging. I suspect they don’t have an EV charger. But why a Tesla and not a Bolt, IDK.
https://insideevs.com/news/625127/caltrans-orders-399-tesla-model-3s-as-it-seeks-to-electrify-fleet/
I used to visit a place often on business where I parked in a city owned garage that was open for public parking, but also used for parking city fleet vehicles. They were almost universally domestic brands, which I think was mandated by city ordinance. But then they seemed to have exceptions for hybrids, and I saw many that were Honda Civic Hybrids and Priuses. But I suppose with the state, Tesla changes that since they generally meet American content requirements.
No. The UAW also represents health care, casino gambling and higher education workers. It appears their official name includes aerospace and ag workers.
Nothing stopping them from leaning on auto manufacturers to unionize downstream employees.
Burt, having been a member of the UAW in my past... just let me say when what you propose has not happened.. is it possible certain members of the company may want to unionize, my guess is they could and it would probably be in the UAW, but I am not aware of that happening anywhere in the last 50 years outside of any of their production facilities. What you are proposing is basically an irrational fear.
- Joined
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I am not sure where you get your data but Tesla has been profitable for a long long time, and in 2022 surpassed GM in NET profit by 4 billion USD. (Just because they dump all their profits into R&D has nothing to do with the fact that they rake in a lot of cash.) GM is a dying company, and is irrelevant at this point in time and will be non existent in the long run imo.
They cracked half a million sales in 2020. That's not a small number if you consider in 2020 they were making well over 6000$ per car on average. Compare to toyota whose profit margin is 1500$ on average, Toyota would need to sell 2 million cars to match. Sure, they sell 10 million cars globally every year, but that means toyota only makes 5x the profits that Tesla makes yet it sells 20x the cars. You also have to consider that they have one of the highest growing net profits in the world across ALL INDUSTRIES. This is an auto maker, not a software tech company or a chip maker (who usually have 1000% mark ups on everything).
So you are flat out wrong...
Profit per car is what is scalable. The bigger the scale the BETTER the profit margin should be as cost goes down. So it will only improve while legacy auto makers are tapped out, and unless they have enormous amounts of cash on their balance sheets to bank roll them into the next decade...companies like GM will be dead. How many times has GM been bailed out?
GM made 6 million cars vs Tesla's 500,000 and yet made less money in 2022....sad.
It's just my proximity to Madison and Milwaukee for sure. I've got almost the same drive to both. Madison has a lot of Teslas, a lot for a car you have to pick up in a different state. They're actually one of the more common cars there. I'm surprised how many are in my small town. It's not a lot but I still see 1-2 driving around if I go anywhere. That's not to say they're all purchased new. Some may have been purchased used more locally, but I don't know for sure.
You're mis-informed.
You need to look at their financial statements. Not worth my time.
Here is a quote =
Here is the source =
https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/20...oes-tesla-make-money-in-2022/?sh=34e26f1232c7
Here is the source=
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/net-income
@VTECOverRated
GM income same time period - (in billions)
Source = https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GM/general-motors/net-income-loss
GM income same time period - (in billions)
Source = https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GM/general-motors/net-income-loss
Also from Macrotrends
Tesla annual net income for 2022 was $12.583B, a 127.79% increase from 2021.
Tesla annual net income for 2021 was $5.524B, a 700.58% increase from 2020.
Tesla annual net income for 2020 was $0.69B, a 180.05% decline from 2019.
GM is a far bigger company with many products, as is Ford, Stellantis, etc. Trucks are their main business; not surprising. As @alarmguy points out, Tesla is a recent start up and lost money every year until recently. That's what start ups do. They are no longer in start up mode; they are in rapid growth with new products and factories.
From a Gross Margin standpoint, Tesla is the envy of every major car company. This allows for incredible leverage; they can and do squeeze their competition via price cuts while remaining highly profitable. Tesla is the only company that makes a profit on EVs.
If you look at GM's EV business, they operate a large loss; they've lost a ton on their Bolt even though sales are strong. Their plan is to deliver single-digit profits off its EV portfolio by 2025. Their EV unit is in start up mode and is bouyed by their legacy expertise and ICE revenue.
Referring to FY 2020 thru 2022; Tesla's growth percentage potential is pretty steep as compared to other car companies. Can they sustain it? Probably not at this level, but time will tell.
Tesla annual net income for 2022 was $12.583B, a 127.79% increase from 2021.
Tesla annual net income for 2021 was $5.524B, a 700.58% increase from 2020.
Tesla annual net income for 2020 was $0.69B, a 180.05% decline from 2019.
GM is a far bigger company with many products, as is Ford, Stellantis, etc. Trucks are their main business; not surprising. As @alarmguy points out, Tesla is a recent start up and lost money every year until recently. That's what start ups do. They are no longer in start up mode; they are in rapid growth with new products and factories.
From a Gross Margin standpoint, Tesla is the envy of every major car company. This allows for incredible leverage; they can and do squeeze their competition via price cuts while remaining highly profitable. Tesla is the only company that makes a profit on EVs.
If you look at GM's EV business, they operate a large loss; they've lost a ton on their Bolt even though sales are strong. Their plan is to deliver single-digit profits off its EV portfolio by 2025. Their EV unit is in start up mode and is bouyed by their legacy expertise and ICE revenue.
Referring to FY 2020 thru 2022; Tesla's growth percentage potential is pretty steep as compared to other car companies. Can they sustain it? Probably not at this level, but time will tell.
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