Quote:Well, the Sequence IIIG engines have been running hundreds of tests on SM/GF-4 oils as thin as 5w20. The valvetrains in the Sequence IIIG engines are a flat tappet design equivalent to the L-79 350 or a LS-5 454 I mentioned above. This is a highly controlled but extremely severe engine test. To give you an idea on how severe this test is, some 15w40 HDEOs have failed it. I agree when you get out of this realm and into the hi-po factory/aftermarket equipment, HDEO is a better choice, with specialized lubricants such as RedLine, etc, being even better. Read about the way ZDDP works, especially abouts it's depletion with use, and how borate esters and moly, among other additives, have been used to replace the functionality of the reduced ZDDP levels to acquire a better understanding.
Quote:You still need to run a "heavier duty" ZDDP fortified oil in these type of engines regardless if the cam is broken in already or not. If HDEO/Diesel doesn't evoke thoughts of high performance, then a specialized high performance oil from Redline or Royal Purple should substitute for long cam and lifter life. Ask me how I know. Edit: Fixed quote tag.
Quote:To be fair, not all musclecars built from ~1960 up to 1971 would destroy their cams without the use of HDEOs. An L-79 350 or a LS-5 454 would have no problems surviving on current PCMOs as long as you kept the OCIs reasonable. The break in procedure is what's most critical here. Now when you move to aftermarket cams, springs, rockers, your in a whole new territory. With the acceleration ramps in those cams couple with the significant increase in spring pressures and higher ratio rockers, you're in a whole new territory. Break in procedure is even more critical, and HDEOs are a great match to compensate for ZDDP depletion. In fact, once broken in, even these cams could survive on current PCMOs, but you'd have to keep the OCI to something like 1,000 miles or less.
A real musclecar is a high performance car built from ~1960 up to 1971-for those that might not have been around during this era. Most people that build up engines for use in older high performance cars, of varying years that can even be other than the afformentioned time frame, still use flat tappet cams if they cannot afford to upgrade to a roller setup. These flat tappet cams need the additives in HDEO to survive because modern day API certified oils are far too neutered to properly protect the moving parts. It has already been proven by the major aftermarket cam companies that the lack of Zinc and other additives is wiping out cam lobes and lifters. Top engine builders and cam companies recommend the use of HDEO to prevent cam lobe and lifter failure when a flat tappet cam is used.
Diesel oil in a old Musclecar
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Quote:Huh? You read that, and that's the conclusion you came to?
I think this explains a lot about the viscosity changes.. and the changes to motor oil in general. So much of it is legislation meeting criteria.. just like ODB2.Yes, they are making changes to meet legislation, not to give the best engine life or performance. Same deal as ODB2 (legislated, not by choice of manufacturers).. seems pretty straight forward to me! Thanks for the info.. what I was most interested in is which oil to use. I'm thinking an HDEO 10w30 for breakin..
wasn't Rotella T 15W-40 dino factory fill for many porshe's and ferrari's back in the 70's and 80's before mobil-1 took over most of those contracts?
I have heard that the zinc in the current diesel oils in going away for 2007? Is that all diesel oils or just certain ones?
I want to switch to a diesel oil that has zinc for my old Mopars. Which one will still have it, if any?
rbrogle...Thats my question as well. This same question is coming up on forums ALL over the net.
not true zinc will be limited to 1200ppm ask 427Z06 he has knowledge of the limits.
I use dello400 in my honda xr50(little dirtbike)since new. This bike has pulls to 9k and is was abused by me. When I went to pull the cylinder and piston to put a oversize kit to double the displacement I was amazed of virtually no wear on the original topend. THe cylinder wall still has a perfect hone like the day it came off the assembly line. Use this stuff in all my cars and older mercedes diesel with 500,000 that still runs like a champ. Amazing stuff and I'm a believer in dello. I noticed the new bottles of dello say designed for high sulfer diesel, but around here we have ultra low sulfer diesel. What's up with that?
Wow, great site and lots of info to digest! I have a 66 K-code Mustang with a slightly more agressive solid flat tappet cam than the stock HiPo unit. With a 4-spd and 4.11 gears the car does see about ~3500 RPM at 60 mph but only gets driven about 500-1000 miles/year, I change the oil twice/year. I have been using a 10W-30 PCMO but due to the info I've read here and elsewhere will switch to a HDEO at the next change. I do drive the car occasionally in winter but at temps no lower than 40 F. Used to open track the car but no more. I'll probably go with Rotella T 15W-40 but does anyone think RTS 5W-40 would be a better choice?
Thanks!
Honestly, either Rotella 5W40 or 15W40 have all the additives your 'stang needs. At 1000 miles per year, probably only driven above freezing, the 5W40 would not deliver any benefit over the 15W40.
That being said, either is a fine choice, and if I had a '66 Stang I really wouldn't see oil costs as a major concern.
County Library does not keep mags this old. Can this article be scanned or I will pay for mailing it to me, and I will scan.
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Good info chucky2....I was not aware of the lighter vis HDEO's. Also, in the November 1999 issue of "Car and Driver", Patrick Bedard's monthly editorial column was titled "Searching For The Right Oil for Keeper Cars", and featured a discussion with a former Exxon Labs engineer named Ed Kollin. It's a great article and Kollin specifically says that the add pack in the HDEO's are more beneficial to older cars than the modern PCMO's. He cites that in older cars that do a lot of sitting, internal engine corrosion is more of an issue than regular wear, and HDEO's deal with corrosion better. If you have access to back issues of Car and Driver, I highly recommend digging this one out. I tried the C&D website, but their editorial online archives look like they start at year 2000.
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County Library does not keep mags this old. Can this article be scanned or I will pay for mailing it to me, and I will scan.Quote:
Good info chucky2....I was not aware of the lighter vis HDEO's. Also, in the November 1999 issue of "Car and Driver", Patrick Bedard's monthly editorial column was titled "Searching For The Right Oil for Keeper Cars", and featured a discussion with a former Exxon Labs engineer named Ed Kollin. It's a great article and Kollin specifically says that the add pack in the HDEO's are more beneficial to older cars than the modern PCMO's. He cites that in older cars that do a lot of sitting, internal engine corrosion is more of an issue than regular wear, and HDEO's deal with corrosion better. If you have access to back issues of Car and Driver, I highly recommend digging this one out. I tried the C&D website, but their editorial online archives look like they start at year 2000.
Howdy,
I am kinda new here. I am a classic chevy enthusiast. I have a fully restored 72 3-door Suburban and my wife has a 68 Chevelle. I built a brand new 350 for the Burb. Hypereutectic pistons, roller hydraulic cam, full roller rockers, Edelbrock alum heads, etc... Built for torque, longevity, and efficiency. I had been running M1 in it. It weeped a lot of oil from seal/gasket areas when I used M1. I switched to Delo 15W40 three oil changes ago and the weeping appears to be substantially reduced. I am pleased to see a lot of positive comments about Delo on this site. I am about to rebuild my wife's small block 307 in her Chevelle and will probably use Delo in it as well.
BTT
What's the status in the last year of the above zinc issue in motor oils? I want to use a dino oil that has a lot of zinc. I have 3 '68 Chryslers and 2 '70 Plymouths, all powered with either a 383 or 440.
Anything new on this issue that anyone would like to share or reccomend any oils for the above vehicles?
Thanks!
All of the new CJ-4 grades have reduced Phosphorus/Zinc levels.
Try to find HDEO in the older CI-4/CI-4+ grade. Castrol GTX Diesel, Walmart 15w-40, and Coastal Fleet 15w-40, (in the black container), are some of the widely available conventional HDEO that have not changed to CJ-4, yet...
Another option is using a CJ-4 HDEO and adding a half to full bottle of GM E.O.S. per oil change.
Do you really think that CJ-4 oils have worse anti-wear performance than CI-4+ oils because the ZDDP concentrations decreased?
Good choice as Delo ROCKS!
From experience, in colder climates you might fight to get a car running conventional 15w40 to start. It is obviously thicker at cold temps and really bogs the starter down. I ran 15w40 in a 440 chrysler...it was fine until it got cold.
While the newer CJ-4 oils have a little less additives when compared to a CI-4+, I believe they are still leaps ahead of a modern gas-formulated oil additive packages.
Originally Posted By: JAG
Do you really think that CJ-4 oils have worse anti-wear performance than CI-4+ oils because the ZDDP concentrations decreased?
Originally Posted By: acewiza
I was considering going syn after the ARX treatment, but worried about leaks developing in this old mill.
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