Did Europe have the same sludge problems.....

Pablo · Jan 16, 2007

Did Europe have the same sludge problems.....With Toyota, VW, etc? Or were different engines used in Europe?

Not trying to be a smart aleck – we all know the longer OCI’s outside USA, and we know the causes of sludge – but were all the factors in place? I can’t remember reading anything about engines sludging overseas.

moribundman · Jan 16, 2007

The Black Death was haunting Europe's motorists about 25 years ago. It was then that synthetic oil became increasingly popular and that oil requirements became more demanding. I don't know of any particular engine that was especially prone to sludging, which happened across the board and to all marques.

427Z06 · Jan 16, 2007

Well one has to only go back to API SJ GF-2 to find that a NOACK (ASTM D5800) of 22% was allowed, EOFT (GM 9099P) and TEOST (ASTM D6335) was used instead of EOWTT and TEOST (MHT4), respectively, among other changes compared to SL.

In short, the testing for sludge-ability of oil wasn't significantly improved until API SL oils arrived.

Apparently combining a low-ball API SJ(and prior) oil with a sludge prone engine and not strictly following the OCI recommendations, led to trouble.

One could say that the ACEA was definitely ahead of the power curve back then.

Curious Kid · Jan 17, 2007

Note that I'm not consciously up to par to define the differences in API vs. ACEA, I have "felt" that the ACEA spec's were more aggressive/telling of an oil's ability. I could pull out my 3" binder of oil info. that I have been filling with the odd and interesting to-me on lubrication started just before my finding this great site, and find a likely dated report of both, but I'm feeling lazy and just speaking of senses, no more.

"One could say that the ACEA was definitely ahead of the power curve back then." Interesting of you to write 427Z06.

moribundman · Jan 17, 2007

Quote:

"One could say that the ACEA was definitely ahead of the power curve back then." Interesting of you to write 427Z06.

I think 427 may secretly own a quart of ACEA A3 oil.

Curious Kid · Jan 17, 2007

Wanting to add...relative to ACEA testing/categorizing, IS API more generalized/less stressing where it may lead to lubricant selections that are not "always" in favor of a specific engine's needs, to be made off the assembly line by the end-user? I wonder if US auto makers have less emphasis on the ultimate quality and thus spec. of oil that goes into the crankcase beyond economy/viscosity ratings??

Perhaps in the case of the sludging Toyota engine line that I have spotted stories on here and there on this site, and for which I once read that Toyo responded by saying the fault was with the user not following proper maintenance guidelines rather than a design fault...could the specifics as far as oil selection and OCI been lost across continent??? What would the spec's for said engine be over in Japan? - but if emissions equip. and fuel differ this to will likely have an effect upon requirements, so?

Perhaps I'm stretching things here, but I'm curiously in the dark so I present the question(s).

friendly_jacek · Jan 17, 2007

I would venture to say that the super cheap quick lube places secretly buying conterfeit bulk oil to stay afloat and their disgruntled minimum wage employees pis ing in the bulk oil containers are clearly an american fenomenon. Almost part of the culture so to speak.

RogerKlugerAus05 · Jan 17, 2007

I lived in the UK all my life until I came to Australia 2 years ago, I am now 59, and was always passionate about all things motoring, especially engines and maintenance, and was never aware of sludge in engines ever. Just since using bitog have I realised problems of sludge exist.
Roger

toocrazy2yoo · Jan 17, 2007

Quote:

I would venture to say that the super cheap quick lube places secretly buying conterfeit bulk oil to stay afloat and their disgruntled minimum wage employees pis ing in the bulk oil containers are clearly an american fenomenon. Almost part of the culture so to speak.

Still need that sit-down with a shrink I see, there, Jacek..

After all, the only one that could dream THAT up must surely be OF that culture..

427Z06 · Jan 17, 2007

Quote:

Quote:

I would venture to say that the super cheap quick lube places secretly buying conterfeit bulk oil to stay afloat and their disgruntled minimum wage employees pis ing in the bulk oil containers are clearly an american fenomenon. Almost part of the culture so to speak.

Click to expand...

Still need that sit-down with a shrink I see, there, Jacek..

After all, the only one that could dream THAT up must surely be OF that culture..

Must be an Alabama thang.

BrianWC · Jan 17, 2007

SAAB's sluge around the world.

But most folks overseas I know still go fairly long stretches in them.

friendly_jacek · Jan 17, 2007

Attention moderator:

Quote:

Still need that sit-down with a shrink I see, there, Jacek..

After all, the only one that could dream THAT up must surely be OF that culture..

dave1251 · Jan 17, 2007

Quote:

Attention moderator:

Quote:

Still need that sit-down with a shrink I see, there, Jacek..

After all, the only one that could dream THAT up must surely be OF that culture..

Click to expand...

You must be kidding. Right?

Rico567 · Jan 18, 2007

In response to "BrianWC"'s comment concerning sludge in SAABs: No, SAABs don't sludge "around the world," at least not in central Illinois. We've had 14 SAAB's in 34 years. No sludge in any. None. Zip. Nada. The one we MIGHT have experienced sludge in was our 2001 9-5 wagon. We never did, however, since my OCIs were pretty prophylactic (5K changes with M1 0W-40; there is evidence linking most sludging with extended intervals / dino oils) Certain model years (2000 - 2003, I think) experienced heavy sludging because the cat was run too close to the pan, cooking the oil. Redesign fixed it.

BrianWC · Jan 18, 2007

Quote:

In response to "BrianWC"'s comment concerning sludge in SAABs: No, SAABs don't sludge "around the world," at least not in central Illinois. We've had 14 SAAB's in 34 years. No sludge in any. None. Zip. Nada. The one we MIGHT have experienced sludge in was our 2001 9-5 wagon. We never did, however, since my OCIs were pretty prophylactic (5K changes with M1 0W-40; there is evidence linking most sludging with extended intervals / dino oils) Certain model years (2000 - 2003, I think) experienced heavy sludging because the cat was run too close to the pan, cooking the oil. Redesign fixed it.

Rico, I'm sorry, but you're not facing the facts. The 99-03 9-5 along with the 99 Viggen and 2000-2002 9-3's are known sludgers. Most of us who post about SAABs on here are well aware and it's why we found BITOG in the first place. It has nothing to do with the cat placement and I'd be glad to provide you with additional info. Please know what you're talking about before you accuse others of ignorance.

Try these articles for starters:

http://andrewsofprinceton.com/shared/chucks9s.cfm

...and I'd be happy to provide you with any amount of detail on the affected cars.

Did Europe have the same sludge problems.....

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