Dexos D alternative

[Z28racecar]

You are not overthinking it, Dexos D is picky by design. For that 3.0 Duramax, the safest move is still a Dexos D approved 0W20 because it is tuned for the DPF and fuel dilution control. Low SAPS matters more than chasing other specs.

If you cannot find Dexos D, ACEA C5 0W20 is the closest functional match. C6 is fine too if it also meets GM diesel requirements, but do not jump to thicker oil. The engine, emissions system, and oil pump are all calibrated around 0W20. Going heavier in Texas heat sounds logical, but it can actually hurt flow and DPF performance.

Using another certification like Porsche C5 or Dexos 1 is not something I would do long term. Short term is unlikely to hurt anything, but for regular use stick to Dexos D or ACEA C5 0W20 from a major brand. Availability is improving and it is worth waiting or ordering online rather than experimenting with viscosity or specs.

You haven't been following the data at all, have you?

 

[edyvw]

You are not overthinking it, Dexos D is picky by design. For that 3.0 Duramax, the safest move is still a Dexos D approved 0W20 because it is tuned for the DPF and fuel dilution control. Low SAPS matters more than chasing other specs.

If you cannot find Dexos D, ACEA C5 0W20 is the closest functional match. C6 is fine too if it also meets GM diesel requirements, but do not jump to thicker oil. The engine, emissions system, and oil pump are all calibrated around 0W20. Going heavier in Texas heat sounds logical, but it can actually hurt flow and DPF performance.

Using another certification like Porsche C5 or Dexos 1 is not something I would do long term. Short term is unlikely to hurt anything, but for regular use stick to Dexos D or ACEA C5 0W20 from a major brand. Availability is improving and it is worth waiting or ordering online rather than experimenting with viscosity or specs.

So, what happens with the “flow” at -20 if engine is designed around 20 grade? Do bearings leave the engine ?

 

[MurkyAsparagus]

You are not overthinking it, Dexos D is picky by design. For that 3.0 Duramax, the safest move is still a Dexos D approved 0W20 because it is tuned for the DPF and fuel dilution control. Low SAPS matters more than chasing other specs.

If you cannot find Dexos D, ACEA C5 0W20 is the closest functional match. C6 is fine too if it also meets GM diesel requirements, but do not jump to thicker oil. The engine, emissions system, and oil pump are all calibrated around 0W20. Going heavier in Texas heat sounds logical, but it can actually hurt flow and DPF performance.

Using another certification like Porsche C5 or Dexos 1 is not something I would do long term. Short term is unlikely to hurt anything, but for regular use stick to Dexos D or ACEA C5 0W20 from a major brand. Availability is improving and it is worth waiting or ordering online rather than experimenting with viscosity or specs.

The whole oil pump being calibrated for a certain viscosity has been debunked numerous times now. How does engine oil viscosity effect emissions systems?

 

[kschachn]

If you cannot find Dexos D, ACEA C5 0W20 is the closest functional match. C6 is fine too if it also meets GM diesel requirements, but do not jump to thicker oil. The engine, emissions system, and oil pump are all calibrated around 0W20. Going heavier in Texas heat sounds logical, but it can actually hurt flow and DPF performance.

As already noted by others, this is a ridiculous and incorrect notion without technical basis whatsoever. Please stop posting nonsense.

 

[UNC196]

For a lot of owners, the DEXOS D rating is about warranty coverage. The thrust bearing failures, requiring engine replacement, allegedly include a question about whether you are using a Dexos d oil…and potentially an oil sample.

I’ve run both 5w30 ESP and now a 0w20. I can’t say what the used oil analysis will look like just yet, but I can hear the turbo spool up and whoosh about 50% louder with the 0w20. No idea if that’s bad…it’s the spec oil. I’m due to get the bearings inspected and wanted to have a Dexos D spec oil in it when it goes to the dealer.


I want to run a 5w30…but my sample of one used oil analysis on ESP 5w30 wasn’t anything special. Iron was still in the 50s. I have a used oil analysis pending for Castrol Euro 5w30k…it might be better. Maybe.

 

[edyvw]

For a lot of owners, the DEXOS D rating is about warranty coverage. The thrust bearing failures, requiring engine replacement, allegedly include a question about whether you are using a Dexos d oil…and potentially an oil sample.

I’ve run both 5w30 ESP and now a 0w20. I can’t say what the used oil analysis will look like just yet, but I can hear the turbo spool up and whoosh about 50% louder with the 0w20. No idea if that’s bad…it’s the spec oil. I’m due to get the bearings inspected and wanted to have a Dexos D spec oil in it when it goes to the dealer.


I want to run a 5w30…but my sample of one used oil analysis on ESP 5w30 wasn’t anything special. Iron was still in the 50s. I have a used oil analysis pending for Castrol Euro 5w30k…it might be better. Maybe.

ESP 0W20 X2 has HTHS around 2.7cP. ESP 5W30 minimum 3.5cP (potentially between 3.5 and 3.6cP).
HTHS is fundamental value in an engine protection. More=more protection margin. However, that also means more resistance. Hence push for 0W20 oils as they are pushed by EPA to lower fleet consumption. Less resistance also means turbo will spool faster. I could for example notice that on my VW CC 2.0T. Run 0W30 with HTHS 3.5 and thrn Mobil 1 0W40 which had HTHS of 3.8cP at that time (API SM), I could notice how turbo spools faster with 0W30.
The point is finding balance. If I have owned baby max, I would strictly use ESP 0W30 if not that ESP 5W30. Another good oil is Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 that was readily available in Wal Mart. That one will have HTHS above 3.6cP.
Motul X-Clean + 0W30 EFE is another good oil but only online. I think FCPEuro carries it so you can do that free exchange thing.
That is when it comes to OTS oils.
Amsoil, HPL and Redline offer good Euro stuff with lower KV100 and higher HTHS.

 

[WarEagle]

ESP 0W20 X2 has HTHS around 2.7cP. ESP 5W30 minimum 3.5cP (potentially between 3.5 and 3.6cP).
HTHS is fundamental value in an engine protection. More=more protection margin. However, that also means more resistance. Hence push for 0W20 oils as they are pushed by EPA to lower fleet consumption. Less resistance also means turbo will spool faster. I could for example notice that on my VW CC 2.0T. Run 0W30 with HTHS 3.5 and thrn Mobil 1 0W40 which had HTHS of 3.8cP at that time (API SM), I could notice how turbo spools faster with 0W30.
The point is finding balance. If I have owned baby max, I would strictly use ESP 0W30 if not that ESP 5W30. Another good oil is Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 that was readily available in Wal Mart. That one will have HTHS above 3.6cP.
Motul X-Clean + 0W30 EFE is another good oil but only online. I think FCPEuro carries it so you can do that free exchange thing.
That is when it comes to OTS oils.
Amsoil, HPL and Redline offer good Euro stuff with lower KV100 and higher HTHS.

I use Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 in my 3.0. Been considering switching to Amsoil diesel 5w-30

 

[edyvw]

I use 0w-30 ESP in my 3.0. Been considering switching to Amsoil diesel 5w-30

I would go Amsoil 5W30 AEL.

 

[loneryder]

ESP 0W20 X2 has HTHS around 2.7cP. ESP 5W30 minimum 3.5cP (potentially between 3.5 and 3.6cP).
HTHS is fundamental value in an engine protection. More=more protection margin. However, that also means more resistance. Hence push for 0W20 oils as they are pushed by EPA to lower fleet consumption. Less resistance also means turbo will spool faster. I could for example notice that on my VW CC 2.0T. Run 0W30 with HTHS 3.5 and thrn Mobil 1 0W40 which had HTHS of 3.8cP at that time (API SM), I could notice how turbo spools faster with 0W30.
The point is finding balance. If I have owned baby max, I would strictly use ESP 0W30 if not that ESP 5W30. Another good oil is Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 that was readily available in Wal Mart. That one will have HTHS above 3.6cP.
Motul X-Clean + 0W30 EFE is another good oil but only online. I think FCPEuro carries it so you can do that free exchange thing.
That is when it comes to OTS oils.
Amsoil, HPL and Redline offer good Euro stuff with lower KV100 and higher HTHS.

Yep. I would never run a 20wt oil in a diesel....especially a 3 str and up.

 

[UNC196]

For a lot of owners, the DEXOS D rating is about warranty coverage. The thrust bearing failures, requiring engine replacement, allegedly include a question about whether you are using a Dexos d oil…and potentially an oil sample.

I’ve run both 5w30 ESP and now a 0w20. I can’t say what the used oil analysis will look like just yet, but I can hear the turbo spool up and whoosh about 50% louder with the 0w20. No idea if that’s bad…it’s the spec oil. I’m due to get the bearings inspected and wanted to have a Dexos D spec oil in it when it goes to the dealer.


I want to run a 5w30…but my sample of one used oil analysis on ESP 5w30 wasn’t anything special. Iron was still in the 50s. I have a used oil analysis pending for Castrol Euro 5w30k…it might be better. Maybe.

To update this, I got my used oil analysis back on Castrol EDGE Euro 5w30k. It came back functionally identical to Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 in terms of wear metals and performance. Nothing remarkable about either one, iron in the 50s on a 5k mile oci.

I’m about at a loss on finding an oil to get iron below 50 on a 5k oci.

 

[CleverUserName]

To update this, I got my used oil analysis back on Castrol EDGE Euro 5w30. It came back functionally identical to Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 in terms of wear metals and performance. Nothing remarkable about either one, iron in the 50s on a 5k mile oci.

I’m about at a loss on finding an oil to get iron below 50 on a 5k oci.

Try the Amsoil max duty 10w30.

Or, try RLI Biosyn HD SAE 30 (10w30).

I would bet both can get iron down to 20-30 PPM at 5k miles.

 

[Pablo]

To update this, I got my used oil analysis back on Castrol EDGE Euro 5w30. It came back functionally identical to Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 in terms of wear metals and performance. Nothing remarkable about either one, iron in the 50s on a 5k mile oci.

I’m about at a loss on finding an oil to get iron below 50 on a 5k oci.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-5w-30-100-synthetic-diesel-oil-dp5/?zo=515729

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-sig...-synthetic-max-duty-diesel-oil-dhd/?zo=515729

A couple more 5W-30s

 

[UNC006]

To update this, I got my used oil analysis back on Castrol EDGE Euro 5w30k. It came back functionally identical to Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 in terms of wear metals and performance. Nothing remarkable about either one, iron in the 50s on a 5k mile oci.

I’m about at a loss on finding an oil to get iron below 50 on a 5k oci.

I would try 2 things:

1) 0W-40 that's suited for you engine. I'm guessing Mobil 1 ESP
Why: 0W will help reduce cold cranking wear and because the 40 gives you better high temp high shear protection.
- Cold Crank Starting Limit improves to <6200cP at -35C instead of <6600cP at -30C
- HTHS improves to 3.8cP from 3.5cP
2) Oil filter with 98% efficiency down to 15 micron
Why: SAE says upgrading from 40 micron to 15 micron 98% efficient filter reduces wear 70%

Bonus) Stainless steel N48SH grade neodymium magnetic drain plug, filter mag, and dipstick.
Why: SAE says most engine wear comes from 2-22 micron particles
- At 10 microns, most premium filters only catch around 50% of particles. It's way worse at 5 micron.
- High heat tolerant strong magnets can catch some of smallest ferrous particles that your filter misses.

 

[UNC006]

I use Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 in my 3.0. Been considering switching to Amsoil diesel 5w-30

That mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is a great choice for the Baby Max. Well done on your research in choosing it.

However, instead of a 5W-30 oil, I would choose 0W-40 that's formulated for a modern turbo diesel. This way you're keeping as much cold start protection as possible, which is when the majority of engine wear occurs. Additionally, you'll get even better high temp high shear protection. Specifically, I would choose Amsoil Signature Series 0W-40 100% Synthetic Max Duty Diesel.

Note, Amsoil 0W-40 will shear out of grade more than their 5W-30, but that's ok because all else equal, their 0W-40 will still end up with with better cold flow and better HTHS viscosity than their 5W-30.

 

[UNC006]

FYI to folks following this thread, the list of Dexos D certified oils has grown to 33 and we're now up to 12 oils that 5W-30.

ACDelco Aceite para Motor a Diésel para Servicio L	General Motors	dexos™D	0W-20	DD20BAGH027
ACDelco Light Duty Diesel	General Motors	dexos™D	0W-20	DD0751IA015
ACDelco Oleo Sintetico DexosD/2 SAE 5W-30	Chevron Products Company, a division of Chevron U.S.A. Inc.	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25ADGG089
ACDelco Oleo Sintetico para Motor SAE 5W-30 dexosD	ICONIC Lubrificantes	dexos™D	5W-30	DD20ABEF089
ACDELCO SUPREME PLUS SAE 5W-30 DEXOS 2	GENERAL MOTORS	dexos™D	5W-30	DD20AAFH409
ADNOC Voyager Blue SAE 5W-30	ADNOC Distribution	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25AAFE284
Castrol EDGE 0W-20 Turbo Diesel	Castrol Ltd.	dexos™D	0W-20	DD55BCCI082
Castrol EDGE 5W-30 C3	Castrol Ltd.	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25ABGD220
Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 DX2	Castrol Ltd.	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25AAGD220
CHAMPION OEM SPECIFIC 5W-30 MS-GD	Champion Chemical NV	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25ABGC012
DuraMAX	RelaDyne, LLC	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BAEF841
Havoline ProDS D SAE 5W-30	Chevron Products Company, a division of Chevron U.S.A. Inc.	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25ACGE089
LubriGold	Warren Oil Company, LLC	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BBFB028
MOBIL 1 ESP X2	ExxonMobil	dexos™D	0W-20	DD40BAED816
Mobil 1 ESP X2	ExxonMobil Oil Corporation	dexos™D	0W-20	DD40BCCB015
Mobil FF DD (factory fill)	ExxonMobil Oil Corp.	dexos™D	0W-20	DD0810IC015
MOBIL SUPER 3000 FORMULA DD 5W-30	ExxonMobil	dexos™D	5W-30	DD20AAEK816
MOBIL SUPER 3000 OV	ExxonMobil Oil Corporation	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BBBK015
MOBIL SUPER ALL-IN-ONE PROTECTION XE2	ExxonMobil Oil Corporation	dexos™D	0W-20	DD40BABJ015
MOBIL SUPER ULTIMATE PROTECTION C6 0W-20	ExxonMobil	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BBFH816
MOCA	Macmillan Oil Company of Allentown	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BAFF339
OEM Synthetic DexosD SAE 5W-30	ICONIC Lubrificantes	dexos™D	5W-30	DD20AAEF089
PETRONAS Syntium 5000 XS 5W-30	Petronas Lubricants International	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25AAGD086
Quartz Ineo Xtra FDE 0W-20	TotalEnergies Lubrifiants	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BCFD070
RAVENOL LDD SAE 0W-20	Ravensberger Schmierstoffvertrieb GmbH	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BACI081
REPSOL MASTER ECO M 0W20	REPSOL LUBRICANTES Y ESPECIALIDADES S.A	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BADE102
Royal Purple High performance 0W-20 Euro	Royal Purple	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BAGF584
Service Pro	Association of Independent Oil Distributors (AIOD)	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BABJ028
Service Pro	Association of Independent Oil Distributors (AIOD)	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BAFB032
Silver State	Colorado Petroleum Products Co.	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BBDL050
Valvoline Full Synthetic dexos D	Valvoline Global Operations	dexos™D	0W-20	DD20BAEJ405
Valvoline SynPower MST FE C6 0W-20	Valvoline, Inc.	dexos™D	0W-20	DD25BADB103
WOLF OFFICIALTECH 5W-30 MS-GD	Wolf Oil Corporation N.V.	dexos™D	5W-30	DD25AAGC012

[th width="378.781px"]Brand Name[/th][th width="315.656px"]Supplier[/th][th width="189.375px"]Specification[/th][th width="68.6094px"]Viscosity[/th][th width="252.562px"]License Number[/th]

 

[CleverUserName]

That mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is a great choice for the Baby Max. Well done on your research in choosing it.

However, instead of a 5W-30 oil, I would choose 0W-40 that's formulated for a modern turbo diesel. This way you're keeping as much cold start protection as possible, which is when the majority of engine wear occurs. Additionally, you'll get even better high temp high shear protection. Specifically, I would choose Amsoil Signature Series 0W-40 100% Synthetic Max Duty Diesel.

Note, Amsoil 0W-40 will shear out of grade more than their 5W-30, but that's ok because all else equal, their 0W-40 will still end up with with better cold flow and better HTHS viscosity than their 5W-30.

Neodium magnet drain plugs. See Dimple and Gold Plug plus other cheaper options.

Fuel additives can improve combustion and reduce soot which will also reduce wear.

Dexos D has the same shortcomings of Dexos2 but with a lower viscosity to further enhance engine wear. All C3 type oils have the same shortcomings. If you want to improve wear, you need to remove soot or improve the oils detergency or both. It’s not all about viscosity in a diesel.

The 0w winter rating is only beneficial if the vehicle is operated in extreme cold. If oil is liquid and pumpable it will flow regardless. Shear will be non-existent with synthetic SAE30, 10w30 or 15w40.

I have an original babymax GMC canyon and a Cruze with the Opel A20DTH. Both require Dexos 2 but I use HD oils in both and wear metals are half of what you’d see with C3/Dexos 2. Aftermarket high efficiency oil filters are not available for these low volume cars so I rely on the oil, additive and magnets to do the work.

 

[UNC196]

From my limited searches, it appears that all of the approved 5w30 oils are overseas, not US.

 

[WarEagle]

@UNC006 @CleverUserName are there not concerns with the HD diesel oil higher SAPS?

 

[UNC006]

Neodium magnet drain plugs. See Dimple and Gold Plug plus other cheaper options.

Fuel additives can improve combustion and reduce soot which will also reduce wear.

Dexos D has the same shortcomings of Dexos2 but with a lower viscosity to further enhance engine wear. All C3 type oils have the same shortcomings. If you want to improve wear, you need to remove soot or improve the oils detergency or both. It’s not all about viscosity in a diesel.

The 0w winter rating is only beneficial if the vehicle is operated in extreme cold. If oil is liquid and pumpable it will flow regardless. Shear will be non-existent with synthetic SAE30, 10w30 or 15w40.

I have an original babymax GMC canyon and a Cruze with the Opel A20DTH. Both require Dexos 2 but I use HD oils in both and wear metals are half of what you’d see with C3/Dexos 2. Aftermarket high efficiency oil filters are not available for these low volume cars so I rely on the oil, additive and magnets to do the work.

Good points

However, as much as we nitpick details to optimize every aspect of things, the more we can improve coldflow the better. Yes, 0W and 15W will both pump, but more 0W oil will hit more metal slightly sooner than 15W oil will, all else equal. In the old days that didn't matte much. Today though, it matters a lot because we have auto stop/start, cylinder deactivation, variable oil pumps that let PSI to single digits sometimes right before you need it most. Not to mention them trying to mass produce things as inexpensively as possible to the tight tolerances possible, occasionally unsuccessfully.

What do you suggest for soot? That is a major problem. However, short of an expensive centrifugal cleaner, that’s hard to improve much. Are their economical exhaust and CCV system upgrades that are worth it and don’t increase crankcase pressure or other ill side effects?

Lastly, I just realized AMSOIL Signature Series Max-Duty Diesel is technically a high SAPS oil at 0.99% sulfated ash. Low SAPS for light duty diesels is below 0.8%. So folks, please disregard that idea unless you're DFP deleted.

 

[CleverUserName]

@UNC006 @CleverUserName are there not concerns with the HD diesel oil higher SAPS?

Yes I’ve heard the “yer DPF is gonna plug” trope many times Still waiting for that to happen… it’s been over 10 years.

Good points

However, as much as we nitpick details to optimize every aspect of things, the more we can improve coldflow the better. Yes, 0W and 15W will both pump, but more 0W oil will hit more metal slightly sooner than 15W oil will, all else equal. In the old days that didn't matte much. Today though, it matters a lot because we have auto stop/start, cylinder deactivation, variable oil pumps that let PSI to single digits sometimes right before you need it most. Not to mention them trying to mass produce things as inexpensively as possible to the tight tolerances possible, occasionally unsuccessfully.

What do you suggest for soot? That is a major problem. However, short of an expensive centrifugal cleaner, that’s hard to improve much. Are their economical exhaust and CCV system upgrades that are worth it and don’t increase crankcase pressure or other ill side effects?

Lastly, I just realized AMSOIL Signature Series Max-Duty Diesel is technically a high SAPS oil at 0.99% sulfated ash. Low SAPS for light duty diesels is below 0.8%. So folks, please disregard that idea unless you're DFP deleted.

Anyone who cares about their engine will disable start/stop. The winter rating doesn’t have a positive effect on oils ability to flow unless it is in extremely cold temps. You can research this here if you choose.

Soot in the oil should be prevented or removed. Prevention by using an additive that improves combustion and/or ECM calibration to limit EGR. Removal would be with high efficiency filtration.

Low SAPS for HDEO limit is 1% and has been since CJ-4 specification was rolled out. Amsoil meets the 1% limit. Low SAPS for PCMOs is different than HDEOs.