Dex-Cool, Prestone, Super Tech Observations

[HTSS_TR]

Lexus LS400 recommends Ethylene Glycol so I use either Preston or Peak All Makes and flush every 2-3 years with T-flush and city water, so far there is no problem after 270+k miles. Thermostat and water pump had been changed once several years ago. Honda S2000 still have OEM coolant, I'll flush it out in about 2-3 years and probably use Peak Global. MB E430 jut had new Zerex G-05 in it last summer and it will be in the engine for 5-6 years. Since coolant doesn't needed to be changed every year, I don't see a need to use cheap coolant in every engine. What if you need 2 gallons concentrate coolant and pay $20-30 a gallon every 4-5 years, is it too much ?

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man

Sodium, being more abundant, costs less than potassium so this may be a reason the universal coolants using it cost less than Dex-Cool.

This I can believe. It would also be the major reason why other alkali metals aren't used in any product.

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man

It seems like Dex-Cool requires potassium 2-ethylhexanoate. It instead of the sodium version are in all these MSDS's for Dex-Cool...

An MSDS is not proof of a requirement. If you have access to the GM6277M spec and can post the relevant portion, I'd be convinced.

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle

If you have O'Reilly's around Peak Final Charge is easy to find-but at $25/gallon it's expensive!

OUCH!

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: FusilliJerry82

A chemist you aren't CoolantMan. You can't judge the properties of a compound based only on those of its constituents.

Sure you can. Molecular structures of elements determine what compounds can be created from them. Whether or not they are successful is another matter.

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Lexus LS400 recommends Ethylene Glycol so I use either Preston or Peak All Makes and flush every 2-3 years with T-flush and city water, so far there is no problem after 270+k miles. Thermostat and water pump had been changed once several years ago. Honda S2000 still have OEM coolant, I'll flush it out in about 2-3 years and probably use Peak Global. MB E430 jut had new Zerex G-05 in it last summer and it will be in the engine for 5-6 years. Since coolant doesn't needed to be changed every year, I don't see a need to use cheap coolant in every engine. What if you need 2 gallons concentrate coolant and pay $20-30 a gallon every 4-5 years, is it too much ?

That's a good point. I like to save money and feel $20-$30 a gallon is OK, but $10 is much better. On top of that, it is cheap maintenance to just drain the radiator every year or two and refill with coolant and distilled water.

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: PeteTheFarmer

An MSDS is not proof of a requirement. If you have access to the GM6277M spec and can post the relevant portion, I'd be convinced.

I think we can use the list of APPROVED & LICENSED providers of Dex-cool (those having a DC ###). Unfortunately, the only info I can find is from 2006... http://recycling-antifreeze.com/pdfs/GM-DEX-00-06-02-006D.pdf So looking at the MSDS of those providers Dex-Cool seems to yield a pattern of potassium 2-EHA being used in Dex-Cool approved/licensed coolants. Since they all use potassium 2-EHA, it would appear to be a requirement. Perhaps someone out there has the exact GM6277M composition requirements and how to get approved and licensed.

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man

Originally Posted By: PeteTheFarmer

An MSDS is not proof of a requirement. If you have access to the GM6277M spec and can post the relevant portion, I'd be convinced.

I think we can use the list of APPROVED & LICENSED providers of Dex-cool (those having a DC ###). Unfortunately, the only info I can find is from 2006... http://recycling-antifreeze.com/pdfs/GM-DEX-00-06-02-006D.pdf So looking at the MSDS of those providers Dex-Cool seems to yield a pattern of potassium 2-EHA being used in Dex-Cool approved/licensed coolants. Since they all use potassium 2-EHA, it would appear to be a requirement. Perhaps someone out there has the exact GM6277M composition requirements and how to get approved and licensed.

Your link shows that Prestone is an approved and licensed supplier, and your post earlier in this thread indicates that they use sodium 2-EHA. Obviously then, potassium can't be a requirement http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2471571

 

[Coolant_Man]

Originally Posted By: PeteTheFarmer

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man

Originally Posted By: PeteTheFarmer

An MSDS is not proof of a requirement. If you have access to the GM6277M spec and can post the relevant portion, I'd be convinced.

I think we can use the list of APPROVED & LICENSED providers of Dex-cool (those having a DC ###). Unfortunately, the only info I can find is from 2006... http://recycling-antifreeze.com/pdfs/GM-DEX-00-06-02-006D.pdf So looking at the MSDS of those providers Dex-Cool seems to yield a pattern of potassium 2-EHA being used in Dex-Cool approved/licensed coolants. Since they all use potassium 2-EHA, it would appear to be a requirement. Perhaps someone out there has the exact GM6277M composition requirements and how to get approved and licensed.

Your link shows that Prestone is an approved and licensed supplier, and your post earlier in this thread indicates that they use sodium 2-EHA. Obviously then, potassium can't be a requirement http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2471571

Yup Prestone's Dex-Cool seems to be the exception. I was at Walmart earlier and had a look. All they had was Prestone Dex-cool Pre-mixed 50/50 and on the back it said sodium 2-EHA. While I was there, I also looked at the Super Tech Pre-mixed 50/50 which doesn't list all of its ingredients like the blue concentrated jug. The white jug lists NJTSRN QT-1. I guess the pre-mixed white jug is made by the same company that makes Peak and the concentrated blue jug is made the same company that makes Prestone

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: FusilliJerry82

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man

When Dex-Cool works IT WORKS!

How much better of a coolant is DexCool than G-05 or Zerex Asian Formula? It isn't. At best, it performs the same, at worst its a catastrophe. So why?

Why? Because its, much cheaper to produce than G-05 (H-OAT) or the Asian P-OATs. 2-EHA used in DexCool is essentially a waste product from other industries.

 

[tommygunn]

Quote:

"Potassium is an extremely active metal, which reacts violently with oxygen and water in air. With oxygen, it converts to potassium peroxide and with water potassium hydroxide. The reaction of potassium with water is dangerous because of its violent exothermic character and the production of hydrogen gas." That sure does sound bad and would seem to make sense.

This is where a good post goes completely south and I immediately shy away from it. Potassium metal is extremely violently reactive with water. Potassium 2-ethyl hexanoate =/= potassium metal. By that logic, water is dangerous in your car because its dihydrogen monoxide. In other words, this thread is the single worst example of applied chemistry I've ever heard.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man

There are also MILLIONS of GMs out there with unpressurized over flow tanks running Dex-Cool with no problems at all.

I would want to see pictures and documented proof of that. Names addresses and phone numbers would also be good. My dealer serviced L67 was yellow (12 months and 1500miles), and when I flushed it full of rust and junk. Will do the LIM gaskets this holiday.

I'm not giving you my personal info, but I do still have two savanas with very high mileage and open overflow tanks. One is an 04 with 400k miles plus, and one is an 06 with about 250k miles. The 06 has never been touched. Original cooling system intact and factory filled. No water pump, etc. replaced or serviced. NO SLUDGE. Not a bit. The 04 has been serviced, water pump failed at around 300k miles. We NEVER get that kind of life on anything but Dex. I don't care what the Internet has blown up, my opinion of Dex cool is that it works very well.

 

[cchase]

My car has an unpressurized overflow. 6 years old, looks great inside, did the first drain and fill last year.

 

[Boss302fan]

I do not care what coolant you use, but always do radiator drain and fills every 2-3 years.... I would bet that most people that have had issues is because they did not maintain their vehicles.

 

[Chris11]

What's interesting to me is that according to the AC Delco Dex MSDS, under section 3 COMPOSITION AND INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS, it does not list 2-EHA at all. All it lists are Monoethylene Glycol (Very high) and Denatonium Benzoate (Very low). http://www.acdelco.com.au/PDFs/MSDS_ACDelco_DexCool.pdf

 

[Petersubaru]

Originally Posted By: Chris11

What's interesting to me is that according to the AC Delco Dex MSDS, under section 3 COMPOSITION AND INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS, it does not list 2-EHA at all. All it lists are Monoethylene Glycol (Very high) and Denatonium Benzoate (Very low). http://www.acdelco.com.au/PDFs/MSDS_ACDelco_DexCool.pdf

...I take the view that the ACdelco product has changed over the years and have also seen the above info posted on many web sites from different countries, but for whatever reason are no longer available or easily found directly provided by ACdelco...I suspect that VW and ACdelco share the same specs as the BASF G30 or sometimes known as G12+, which contains no 2-eha unlike the G48 ..the British web site Comma gives MSDS info, but most telling over the years has been the Dutch oil company "MPM oil company" who is not shy in providing info about their products (several languages are available)..plus, over the years they have greatly simplified and many of the products contain no 2-EHA, while some still do for the French auto companies..

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Petersubaru

I suspect that VW and ACdelco share the same specs as the BASF G30 or sometimes known as G12+, which contains no 2-eha unlike the G48

I don't doubt that for a minute. Even though I no longer have my Audi, I've been doing some browsing and checking over various websites and data sheets, and it seems actual Dexcool is approved and/or recommended for various G12+ applications. GO figure. Of course, some manufacturers claim that G11 and G12+ can be mixed, while others say no.