Dex-Cool, Prestone, Super Tech Observations

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It's been awhile since I have posted here. A lot has changed in coolants since then. What follows is MY OPINION on these matters and is subject to change BUT I believe I am right on the mark with what follows. So I have been digging around on the current coolants again. I had been using John Deere Cool-Gard in most of the cars and trucks I work on, but [censored] it is getting expensive. It now sells for $25/jug concentrated. John Deere now has a propylene glycol coolant called Cool-Gard II PG. I don't know what the price is for it. Ethylene Glycol is better at moving heat than Propylene Glycol. The marketing hype that Propylene Glycol is safer for animals and dumb kids that might drink it is [censored]. It will kill if consumed. Anyway, I have been watching coolant topics here on and off. I have seen some posts that seem to indicate that there cannot be a universal coolant. That is both true and false. It is true in that there are applications automotive coolant should not be used in such as heavy duty diesel. Yet even diesel manufacturers are coming to their senses and going to OAT coolants that no longer require SCA. Caterpillar EC-1 appears to be an excellent diesel OAT coolant. It lasts 600K miles and only requires an extender at 300K miles. It is false in that there use to be a universal automotive coolant that all cars used; the old green [censored]. It is nice to see a move back to a universal coolant which is better than the old green syrup. Never convert a newer cooling system to the old green stuff. It is an old technology that is being abandoned. In fact, the only old green coolant I have seen for sale was at a Farm & Home Supply store. The coolant is called Durex. All the bottles I saw were dusty and are probably way past their shelf life. I think the green stuff only has a shelf life of 2 years. Also, silicates and phosphates are harsh to newer cooling systems. Newer meaning autos made since the introduction of Dex-Cool back in the mid 1990s. It is just a bad idea to switch from the newer organic coolants to that [censored] so just don't do it. So why use coolants such as G-05, Ford Premium Gold, Dodge Red, Asian P-OAT, etc. in cars and light trucks when there are universal coolants available AS LONG AS they are compatible with gaskets and seals? Ford is now going to Dex-Cool (their version but the exact same thing and color). Ford calls it Motorcraft® Specialty Orange Engine Coolant. They even used it in the past on certain vehicles. Who would have thought that would happen? It actually makes sense for Ford and other manufacturers to do this. It really is silly to have different coolants for the same automotive class. ANY type of automotive coolant should be easy to find and be affordable. If you are in an emergency, you should be able to go to a store or gas station or truck stop and get coolant. Here's a recent experiment I did. I decided to go driving around my part of Illinois looking for coolants other than Prestone AMAM and Super Tech. I went to Autozone, O'Reilly's, Wal-Mart, Walgreen's, farm supply stores, gas stations, and a couple of truck stops. What an experience and disappointment. First off, people who work a parts places like Autozone and O'Reilly's don't know everything. I would say they are librarians who know how to look things up, but that would be an insult to librarians. What's Ford Premium Gold? What's ELC? Why not put the old green stuff in it? Morons! I did find one coolant at a small farm supply store called Polar Longlife Antifreeze+Coolant. It's in a gray bottle, is priced at $9/jug, and says on the front it mixes with Dex-Cool, Ford, and Dodge coolants. Yet the ingredients read exactly like those of Peak Long Life... "INGREDIENTS: Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1), Water (7732-18-5), Proprietary Ingredients (NJTSRN QT-1)" It is made by Warren Performance Products. I sent them an e-mail inquiring what's in it especially if it has 2-EHA or not. I have only received generic answers not pertaining directly to my questions so I will probably not use this coolant. I only saw this coolant at ONE store so why use it? Once again, coolant should be super easy to find. THE #1 COOLANT that is easy to find? Prestone All Makes All Models (AMAM) followed by Super Tech which is available at all Wal-Mart stores. Super Tech is the same stuff as Prestone AMAM, costs less, and you can add Prestone AMAM to it if needed. I am planning on using Super Tech in all of the vehicles I work on. So far, it has worked fine in the GMs as they came with Dex-Cool. I have used it in a couple of Dodge vehicles and my Honda Shadow Spirit VT750DC motorcycle without any ill effects. I am going to do a flush of the John Deere Cool-Gard II coolant in my 2001 Mustang GT and replace it with Super Tech using this procedure... 1) Remove lower radiator hose from the radiator, drain, and reattach hose. 2) Install Prestone Flush 'N Fill Kit. 3) Remove radiator cap and back flush cooling system with the engine running and the heater on HIGH and HOT until clean city water runs out. I might remove the thermostat while back flushing. 4) Drain city water by removing lower radiator hose from the radiator then reattach it. 5) Fill with distilled water, run engine with heater on HIGH and HOT for 15-20 minutes, drain, and repeat a few times to get rid of the city water. 6) Add two bottles of Prestone Super Radiator Flush and run engine for 15-20 minutes with heater on HIGH and HOT. 7) Drain by removing lower radiator hose from the radiator then reattach it. 8) Back flush cooling system until clean city water runs out. 9) Drain. 10) Fill with distilled water, run engine with heater on HIGH for 15-20 minutes, drain, and repeat a few times to get rid of the city water. 11) Pour in enough coolant to achieve a 60/40 ratio of coolant to distilled water. All of that should take about 3 hours or so to do. I use to not use a back flushing kit as I didn't want city water in my cooling system, but it is a pain in the [censored] to use only distilled water and adds hours to the procedure. Using the steps above will get rid of pretty much all the city water in the cooling system and it is not in the cooling system long enough to cause any damage. After doing all of that, at least once every two years I plan on simply removing the lower radiator hose to let the radiator and engine drain, clean out the overflow tank if needed, reconnect the lower radiator hose, and refill with a 60/40 mix of Super Tech to distilled water. That should keep the system clean without doing a complete flush and fill and protect to -55°F to 270°F. NEVER USE SPRING OR WELL WATER! Just because it tastes good to you doesn't mean it is great for your cooling system. Those tasty minerals and other stuff in them are bad for a cooling system even when back flushing. Use good quality city water to back flush and immediately use distilled water to get rid of the city water prior to adding coolant. Distilled water is the water your cooling system loves mixed with coolant. So why do I want to use the same thing in all my vehicles? Because it is easier to stock ONE coolant and that ONE coolant is easy to get as there are Wal-Mart stores everywhere. I would probably use Prestone All Makes All Models (AMAM), but why when the Super Tech is the same stuff and costs less? Plus in an emergency, Prestone AMAM 50/50 can be used to top it off. I think OATs such as Dex-Cool, Prestone AMAM, and Super Tech will protect all cooling system metals just fine. The only real concern is gaskets and seals. From experience, it seems to me if the cooling system used H-OAT or P-OAT, Prestone AMAM and Super Tech will work fine. Some thoughts on Dex-Cool. I really don't believe it is bad at least not in its current formulation using sodium 2-EHA. It has been shown here numerous times that cooling systems using Dex-Cool THAT HAVE NOT been contaminated with different coolants and/or city/well/spring/drinking water and/or have no gasket or seal issues are some of the cleanest cooling systems you will ever see. Maintenance is the key! Even though the service life may be 5 years or 150K miles, open the overflow and radiator caps ONCE or TWICE a month and make sure the coolant looks right and is at the correct levels. I discovered something else in my research on 2-EHA and GM's Dex-Cool. When Dex-Cool first came out, it was made by Texaco and they used potassium 2-ethyl hexanoate instead of the current sodium 2-ethyl hexanoate. I hate to use Wikipedia as a source, but this was also interesting... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium "Potassium is an extremely active metal, which reacts violently with oxygen and water in air. With oxygen, it converts to potassium peroxide and with water potassium hydroxide. The reaction of potassium with water is dangerous because of its violent exothermic character and the production of hydrogen gas." That sure does sound bad and would seem to make sense. A GM cooling system gets low on coolant from not checking it regularly to where the above chemical reaction happens. It is probably also why Dex-Cool and the universal OATs now use sodium 2-ethyl hexanoate. I have yet to see any documented evidence that coolants using sodium 2-ethyl hexanoate have caused any of the old mud, sludge, syrup, corrosion, gasket, seal, etc. issues seen in the past. There is one other coolant out there I know of that doesn't use 2-EHA. That being Peak Global. My problem with it is that it is hard to find and it seems the only place that can get it is NAPA and they all seem to close at 5 PM or 6 PM. It is available at SOME Walgreen's but the only one I have seen is the 50/50 mixed version. I want something that is EASY to get especially during an emergency. Who the [censored] would be dumb enough to change out their coolant, convert to Peak Global, and leave it in there until the end of time without checking it regularly? That is an argument as to why the old Dex-Cool problems happened. I believe most coolant issues can avoided by proper maintenance and using quality coolant such as Prestone AMAM and Super Tech along with distilled water. I remember reading here a guy named RayH used Super Tech in a car for many years. I think it was a Sonota which probably had P-OAT in it. I seem to remember this guy had great results with Super Tech. Anyway all of this have just been thoughts of mine over the last few years. I hope others might learn or comment on them. I might add more to this thread later.
 
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Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
Never convert a newer cooling system to the old green stuff. It is an old technology that is being abandoned. In fact, the only old green coolant I have seen for sale was at a Farm & Home Supply store. The coolant is called Durex. All the bottles I saw were dusty and are probably way past their shelf life. I think the green stuff only has a shelf life of 2 years. Also, silicates and phosphates are harsh to newer cooling systems. Newer meaning autos made since the introduction of Dex-Cool back in the mid 1990s. It is just a bad idea to switch from the newer organic coolants to that [censored] so just don't do it.
I do not agree with your OPINION here. It's a known fact that Dexcool does not work well in a cooling system with a non pressurized overflow bottle such as a 97 Suburban with a 5.7. or Astro/s10's with the 4.3L. These cars have lots of issues with OAT coolants and switching then backwards to Silicated Green coolant gives them a longer life as long as the coolant gets changed every few years. Old style Silicated green coolant is alive and well out here. The only places that do not carry it is WM and Pep Boys. As for old bottles on the shelf.......Not here. They fly off the shelf. We buy Silicated coolant by the drum and it has a fill date thats usually less than 5-8 weeks before. It will take many years for coolant to go bad sitting in a plastic barrel so who cares if it's 2 or 3 years old? Theres still lots and lots of older cars that use Copper Radiators in my area. Putting OAT coolant in a Copper Radiator will cause leaks as the OAT will eat the Solder. Our Radiator core suppliers will not warranty a core if OAT was used.
 
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John Deere CoolGard II IS NOT a propoleyne glycol coolant, its listed by Deere as a tri-HOAT formula. Its still etheylene glycol based with BITREX added, as the later formulation of CoolGard was.John Deere Cool-Gard II - Bob Is The Oil Guy. Did you forget about the above linked thread?
 
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WOW, is that Chapter 1? LOL Just some thoughts. For sure the "universal coolants" are the most common AF's sold at Auto stores and Wally. Walk into O'R and you'll be lucky to find anything other than full strength or premix universal coolants. I used Peak Long Life every 2-3years/30k with distilled flush series in my Altima before the precat failed causing terminal engine damage. The radiator however was clean as a whistle.
Quote:
The only real concern is gaskets and seals
And how is one supposed to know if the gaskets and seals are compatible? If it calls for G05 or a P-OAT it's a roll of the dice, though imo less so in the latter based on my experience. I do believe though that part of Ford's future move to 2eha based Dex like coolant is because universal coolants dominate the aftermarket. But, that is JMO. If I knew the gaskets/seals in a Honda or Toyota were compatible I would use it. But, with full strength Peak Global Life available at Napa ($16.50/gal), that's what I plan on using for now and not take the risk.
 

Coolant_Man

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Originally Posted By: Chris142
I do not agree with your OPINION here. It's a known fact that Dexcool does not work well in a cooling system with a non pressurized overflow bottle such as a 97 Suburban with a 5.7. or Astro/s10's with the 4.3L. These cars have lots of issues with OAT coolants and switching then backwards to Silicated Green coolant gives them a longer life as long as the coolant gets changed every few years.
One of the GMs I converted to Super Tech is a 2003 S-10 pickup. Another is a 2004 Blazer. Both with unpressurized over flow bottles. Both look perfectly fine and are the same greenish-yellow color as when Super Tech and distilled water were first added. There are also MILLIONS of GMs out there with unpressurized over flow tanks running Dex-Cool with no problems at all.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Old style Silicated green coolant is alive and well out here. The only places that do not carry it is WM and Pep Boys. As for old bottles on the shelf.......Not here. They fly off the shelf. We buy Silicated coolant by the drum and it has a fill date thats usually less than 5-8 weeks before. It will take many years for coolant to go bad sitting in a plastic barrel so who cares if it's 2 or 3 years old?
The old green stuff has a 2 year shelf life. The OATs, H-OATs, and P-OATs have shelf lives of around 7 years according to most of the manufacturer websites about them.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Theres still lots and lots of older cars that use Copper Radiators in my area. Putting OAT coolant in a Copper Radiator will cause leaks as the OAT will eat the Solder. Our Radiator core suppliers will not warranty a core if OAT was used.
I would want to see pictures and documented proof of that.
 

Coolant_Man

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Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
John Deere CoolGard II IS NOT a propoleyne glycol coolant, its listed by Deere as a tri-HOAT formula. Its still etheylene glycol based with BITREX added, as the later formulation of CoolGard was.John Deere Cool-Gard II - Bob Is The Oil Guy. Did you forget about the above linked thread?
I said...
Quote:
John Deere now has a propylene glycol coolant called Cool-Gard II PG. I don't know what the price is for it.
Here is a link to it... https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5686_fb_AntiFreezeCoolGard.htm#_Cool-Gard%E2%84%A2_PG_heavy-duty_antifreeze
 

Coolant_Man

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Originally Posted By: sayjac
And how is one supposed to know if the gaskets and seals are compatible? If it calls for G05 or a P-OAT it's a roll of the dice, though imo less so in the latter based on my experience. I do believe though that part of Ford's future move to 2eha based Dex like coolant is because universal coolants dominate the aftermarket. But, that is JMO. If I knew the gaskets/seals in a Honda or Toyota were compatible I would use it. But, with full strength Peak Global Life available at Napa ($16.50/gal), that's what I plan on using for now and not take the risk.
Yup that is the big question. Are the gaskets and seals compatible? It seems like they are. I have yet to read anything definitively saying Prestone AMAM or Super Tech destroyed a gasket or seal.
 
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JD Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II user here, great stuff! I paid $14 a gallon by the case for concentrate last week at the local JD dealer, its not PG. Product Name: John Deere Cool Gard II Premix COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS wt. Percent CAS Registry # Monoethylene Glycol > 45 000107-21-1 Diethylene Glycol 3 max 000111-46-6 Proprietary Inhibitors 1-5 Mixture Water 50 max 007732-18-5 Looks like it does a outstanding job of protecting metals too. http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US/part...omparisons.page Edit: I just saw your link, the Cool-Guard II PG is a totally different product.
 
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Coolant_Man

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Originally Posted By: Trav
JD Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II user here, great stuff! I paid $14 a gallon by the case for concentrate last week at the local JD dealer, its not PG. Product Name: John Deere Cool Gard II Premix COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS wt. Percent CAS Registry # Monoethylene Glycol > 45 000107-21-1 Diethylene Glycol 3 max 000111-46-6 Proprietary Inhibitors 1-5 Mixture Water 50 max 007732-18-5 Looks like it does a outstanding job of protecting metals too. http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US/part...omparisons.page
Yes the Cool-Gard is good stuff. I went to quite a bit of trouble a couple of years ago getting information about it from John Deere which I shared here. I take it since you bought pre-mix you are just doing top offs.
 
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Sorry I missed that in your original post. I now have almost everything I own now converted to the new Coolgard II, it seems to be holding up very well. One engine has had it in use for two years now with excellent coolant anylsis results.
 

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Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Sorry I missed that in your original post. I now have almost everything I own now converted to the new Coolgard II, it seems to be holding up very well. One engine has had it in use for two years now with excellent coolant anylsis results.
It truly is good. I have had no problems with it in the years I have used both the original Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II. But it is now entirely over-priced at about $25/jug. I am happy I have been having good luck so far with Super Tech plus it is way easier to get it.
 
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No i bought concentrate, the info i posted was for premix just to show it wasn't PG. Cool-Guard II PG is a totally different product, regular Cool-Guard II is still made and available. The PG is the expensive stuff. Heck many dealers still have regular old Cool-Guard in stock.
 

Coolant_Man

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Originally Posted By: Trav
No i bought concentrate, the info i posted was for premix just to show it wasn't PG. Cool-Guard II PG is a totally different product, regular Cool-Guard II is still made and available. The PG is the expensive stuff. Heck many dealers still have regular old Cool-Guard in stock.
There is probably millions of bottles of the original Cool-Gard still out there. I do know that Cool-Gard II is backwards compatible for all original Cool-Gard applications. I seem to remember that Cool-Gard II came out mainly for newer hotter exhausts and engine temperatures in the newer John Deere equipment.
 

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Originally Posted By: Chris142
I do not agree with your OPINION here. It's a known fact that Dexcool does not work well in a cooling system with a non pressurized overflow bottle such as a 97 Suburban with a 5.7. or Astro/s10's with the 4.3L. These cars have lots of issues with OAT coolants and switching then backwards to Silicated Green coolant gives them a longer life as long as the coolant gets changed every few years.
You mean that horrible dex that looks like this after nearly 14 years? 98 S-10 ZR2
 
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Quote:
I seem to remember that Cool-Gard II came out mainly for newer hotter exhausts and engine temperatures in the newer John Deere equipment.
Cooled EGR on heavy duty diesels not just JD. Still at $14 a gal i cant see using Supertech or Prestone, but that's just my opinion.
 

Coolant_Man

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Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
I seem to remember that Cool-Gard II came out mainly for newer hotter exhausts and engine temperatures in the newer John Deere equipment.
Cooled EGR on heavy duty diesels not just JD. Still at $14 a gal i cant see using Supertech or Prestone, but that's just my opinion.
I wish it wasn't $25/jug here. It's ridiculous.
 
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Originally Posted By: Coolant_Man
[quote=Chris142]I would want to see pictures and documented proof of that.
Ask and you shall recieve. If this is not enough info you can come to my Radiator shop and I can show you in person what OAT does to solder. "OAT corrosion inhibitors provide excellent long-term protection for aluminum and cast iron, but may not be the best choice for older cooling systems that have copper/brass radiators and heater cores. Some sources do NOT recommend Dex-Cool or other OAT coolants for older vehicles with all-iron engines and copper/brass radiators." http://www.underhoodservice.com/Article/46495/cooling_system_antifreeze_requirements.aspx " OAT coolants are not the best choice for systems that have traditional brass/copper radiators and heater cores. In the past, I replaced high-priced aluminum radiators with cheaper copper ones, and neglected to remove all of the OAT coolant and replace it with green. I am sure the copper did not last as long as it should have with OAT antifreeze. " http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/703/true-colors " Nulon Red Long Life Coolant is not recommended for use in cooling systems that have a copper/brass radiator (in such vehicles, use Nulon LL, which is green)." http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Cooling_Systems/Red_Long_Life_Concentrated_Coolant/ "If you have a copper radiator the acid from organic corrosion inhibitors in the long life orange or red coolant will actually eat away at the copper, so stick with the traditional green stuff for a copper radiator" http://www.drivingtips.org/antifreeze.html http://www.gmperformancetuning.com/manit...ge-coolant.html
 
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