Determining oil change intervals

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
4
Location
VT
In the last couple of months this forum has probably taught me just enough to be dangerous, but I’m still not confident in answering this question: How does one decide an appropriate oil change interval?

The car: 2010 Mini Cooper S (1.6 L turbo Direct injection) , 6 sp manual, driven daily, 40 mile round trip commute, including some [censored] cold days, mostly highway, where I usually aim for maximizing gas mileage, occasional full throttle accelerations…just because it’s fun.

The factory oil is a BMW/Mini branded 5w-30 synthetic widely believed to be Castrol. Acceptable alternatives in the manual are Euro formula Castrol 0w-30 and Mobil 1 0w-40.
“Follow the manufacturer’s recommendations” sounds like a sensible rule. On this car the onboard computer calculates the number. When new it started at 15k miles for the first change and has since risen to 18 k. Other mini owners tell me this is typical for somebody who drives like I do. It might go even higher, but I won’t drive that much in a year (around 15k miles) and the manual says change it at least once per year.

Used oil reports on this and other sites suggest to some people that 15k may be too much for a DI turbo engine, even with these long wear oils. No doubt some units can handle this but wouldn’t it be expected that some will have more fuel dilution, etc., than others?

I keep my cars for a long time and want to do the same with this one. Is oil analysis the way to go or can I spend the money on oil and just stick with some conservative number, maybe somewhere between 5k – 10k? Or maybe I'm making this harder than it has to be and once per year is the answer?
 
Can you go wrong following the manufacturer's oil change intervals in the owner's manual? Why would you think that members here could do better? No one here can warranty your car.
 
Stay to whatever your manual says until out of your warranty, then play with it. Just my opinion, though.
 
I'd think your extended highway driving would take care of most of your potential fuel dilution problems.
But if you plan to keep the car for a long time I'd change the oil out sooner than later. 10K miles seems like a reasonable OCI to me for a turbo car, that sees full boost fairly often. You could find some UOA's for DI motors and see how bad fuel dilution gets.
 
I keep seeing people warning you about a warranty concern ..yet all I saw you do was state that you wanted to EXCEED the warranty requirements in terms of MORE oil changes than are required by the OEM.

Someone has GOT to tell me how EXCEEDING OEM requirements for oil changes endangers your warranty.

I've really got to experience this one.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I keep seeing people warning you about a warranty concern ..yet all I saw you do was state that you wanted to EXCEED the warranty requirements in terms of MORE oil changes than are required by the OEM.

Someone has GOT to tell me how EXCEEDING OEM requirements for oil changes endangers your warranty.

I've really got to experience this one.


I was wondering the same thing.

To the OP, I'd worry more about keeping your car performing as well as possible, and less about doing the minimum needed to keep your warranty intact..

Maybe someone with experience with DI will chime in. The whole thing seems a little maintenance-intensive to keep the intake valves clean. I was wondering what effect running a can of something like the 3M intake cleaner would have on the oil. I almost think you'd need to factor that into the OCI.
 
Carbon build up on the intake valves is a known issue with the car. I hadn't thought of treating that as a complicating factor. Seafoam seems to be a popular DIY approach but I'll have to mull that over a bit more.

As mentioned, warranty is not an issue. In fact, the car comes with included scheduled maintenance for the first 36k. The dealer will change the oil when it hits 18k or whatever the computer says at the time. One of the service guys at the dealer actually suggested not waiting that long, though, and that's what got me started looking into this. The few DI engine oil analyses I have seen do seem to suggest to some people that 15 k might be too long, but I'm no expert in interpreting them.

Yes, the BMW engineers know way more about this than I, or most anyone else. But having worked as an engineer in another industry I know from personal experience that they don't have the last word on recommendations like this or, at least, I didn't.

"Trust, but verify." Someone once said in a different context.
 
It's your car. How can a couple of extra oil changes hurt. Also you might learn something with a uoa. Think of it as entertainment, not an investment that has to return some value. If you keep the car a long time you can always repeat the uoa and look back at the first uoa as a reference. I've always thought that these longer oci's are there to keep the cost of ownership and or cost to the dealer in your case low for the new car buyer. You're the guy the factory is more interested in helping. The second owner is of less interest. You're the one that is paying the bills at BMW.
 
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Can you go wrong following the manufacturer's oil change intervals in the owner's manual? Why would you think that members here could do better? No one here can warranty your car.
Trouble is the car isn't warrantied forever -- just 50K miles, from the same auto manufacturer that says coolant and the transmission and differential oils are lifetime fills.

And given the used oil analyses of BMW HPS 5W-30 available on this site, I think shortening OCIs is a smart move.
 
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Fall and Spring changes.


I agree, oil is cheap that car wasn't. Granted the engineers who designed the engine know more than most of us. But I can safely say changing the oil earlier isn't going to hurt that engine one bit. Especially a Turbo DI engine!

As a side note, I would not leave FF in an engine for 15K miles or 1 year, I don't care what the engineers say.
 
Originally Posted By: miniac
Yes, the BMW engineers know way more about this than I, or most anyone else. But having worked as an engineer in another industry I know from personal experience that they don't have the last word on recommendations like this or, at least, I didn't.
This.

The trope that "the engineers know better than we do" often gets used to justify supporting manufacturer recommendations, and purely speaking it's basically true. But what isn't factored in is exactly what you addressed: engineers are only one link in a chain of factors that lead to the final product, and they by no means have final say about that product, how it's made and how it's marketed.

The competing demands of engineers, corporate accountants, marketing executives, board members and more all get rolled into the final product (to include its warranty and recommended maintenance), which generally represents a messy compromise of these often warring interests.

So when we look to the manufacturer for guidance on our cars, we're not necessarily getting the undiluted word of the engineers or people who have the vehicle or the consumers' best interests in mind.

This isn't to say we're getting malicious lies fed to us either, necessarily -- I don't think we are.

Only that a more nuanced understanding of what goes into creating the word from on high is called for.
 
After the warranty is up I would pick a quality synthetic(Amsoil,PP, M1) and run it for 8K then do a UOA. If OK, settle on 10K and enjoy you ride for many years and miles. I have been doing 10K OCIs for 32 years withg M1 so you won't have a problem with any of the oils I mentioned.
 
Go with tig1 and Steve S's suggestion.

I'm all for oil samples (using multiple labs if you're really paranoid even, since I heard some of the labs may be better than others....though have quite a price difference) and would suggest that route.

But then there's the other route, why spend the money on the analysis, when you could just use that $ for a good quality oil and filter change?
smile.gif


It's all up to you....personally, I'd go with a combination of the oil life monitor, miles, and time.

As noted, your long highway, potentially WOT runs will "settle out" any possible "fuel dilution" in the oil....


And personally, while under warranty, I'd go with the Owner's Manual to the "T"....can't go wrong there. Since the car is new, you may have a little bit of "excess" wear readings from your UOAs in the very beginning anyways....so personally, I'd go with the owner's manual or dealer scheduling (you said they will provide your first couple maintenance items free?) - by that time the "new engine break in" should be down to a minimum and then go towards "extending" your oil drain and fills once the warranty period is up, and the dealer is no longer giving you free service
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: miniac
Carbon build up on the intake valves is a known issue with the car. I hadn't thought of treating that as a complicating factor. Seafoam seems to be a popular DIY approach but I'll have to mull that over a bit more.



Yeah, I think once you have a strategy for dealing with that, it would be worth factoring it into the equation. A friend of mine has the same car and asked my about it. My suggestion to him was to run a can of the 3M intake cleaner every 7.5K miles, run a can of a PEA-based cleaner through the tank, and then dump the oil.

That's twice a year for him. Nothing against Seafoam, but I just have more faith in the 3M stuff. It's not cheap, about $18.00 a can plus about $70.00 for the home version of the tool you need to use it, but I can tell you that it definitely works to clean up intake valves and 3M's stuff is typically top quality. Thing is, I don't know what effect the intake treatment has on the oil, so if I were looking to extend the interval, I'd probably want a UOA @ 8K to check out it's condition after the intake service.
 
Originally Posted By: ahoier
And personally, while under warranty, I'd go with the Owner's Manual to the "T"....can't go wrong there. Since the car is new, you may have a little bit of "excess" wear readings from your UOAs in the very beginning anyways....so personally, I'd go with the owner's manual or dealer scheduling (you said they will provide your first couple maintenance items free?) - by that time the "new engine break in" should be down to a minimum and then go towards "extending" your oil drain and fills once the warranty period is up, and the dealer is no longer giving you free service
smile.gif

OP is concerned that the manufacturer's OCIs are too long already, and is trying to determine to what degree he might shorten them. Why suggest waiting until warranty is out, then extending?
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
After the warranty is up I would pick a quality synthetic(Amsoil,PP, M1) and run it for 8K then do a UOA. If OK, settle on 10K and enjoy you ride for many years and miles.
Why when the warranty is up? How is decreasing the OCI related?
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I keep seeing people warning you about a warranty concern ..yet all I saw you do was state that you wanted to EXCEED the warranty requirements in terms of MORE oil changes than are required by the OEM.

Someone has GOT to tell me how EXCEEDING OEM requirements for oil changes endangers your warranty.

I've really got to experience this one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top