Detailed List of Motorcycle Oils (around 15W-40 or thicker characteristics)

AtomicNumber53

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Something I just caught a little while ago is that the Royal Purple Duralec 15W-40 is *not* API rated for gasoline engines -- like API SN or similar. How much of a problem is it really to run a diesel-only rated oil in an air-cooled, gasoline engine? Obviously, universal diesel oils are OK as they're designed to run in both engines. But what harm could really happen from one without an API SN or similar rating? It won't be as clean, I assume. And that's about it??
 
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Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
I've decided to remove a few oils from the list just because they really don't belong (due to not being JASO MA or Allison C-4 rated): - Castrol GTX 15W-40 - Quaker State 4x4 15W-40 - Mystik JT-8 10W-40 - Mystik JT-8 15W-50 - Mobil 1 FS X2 5W-50 - Castrol Edge 5W-50 I can't wait to see a spec sheet on the Rotella T6 15W-40, tho. It'll be one of only two synthetic 15W-40s, alongside the Royal Purple Duralec, which I doubt many people here use. Can't believe the T6 15W-40 took so long to get here!!
I think you just muddied the list now/ Many other oils besides the ones above that are on your list are not Jaso MA rated and the ones that claim that rating are not actually "approved" they just claim to meet the standard and really, the only one that claims to meet the standard yet not "approved" is Rotella. So you can just about throw all the diesel oils off the list and some motorcycle oils. Its your list, just pointing that out. Heck, you wont even see Mobil 1 motorcycle oil on the list yet you will see Warren Oil which I find interesting and maybe the suppler of the new Super Tech motorcycle oil? Would be interesting to find out. Here is the list - Click
 
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Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
I've decided to remove a few oils from the list just because they really don't belong (due to not being JASO MA or Allison C-4 rated): - Castrol GTX 15W-40 - Quaker State 4x4 15W-40 - Mystik JT-8 10W-40 - Mystik JT-8 15W-50 - Mobil 1 FS X2 5W-50 - Castrol Edge 5W-50 I can't wait to see a spec sheet on the Rotella T6 15W-40, tho. It'll be one of only two synthetic 15W-40s, alongside the Royal Purple Duralec, which I doubt many people here use. Can't believe the T6 15W-40 took so long to get here!!
If you are in for a penny you may as well be in for a pound.. Lets see some kind of proof that makes a synthetic better than a conventional, and lets see some proof that one oil with JASO MA has more or less of this or that that makes it superior in wet clutches. 1) How or why is synthetic oil better in a shared sump? 2) JASO MA - What additives/properties or lack thereof make it superior?
 
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JASO MA/MA/2 simply means what it doesn't have, which is friction modifiers. There is a cost to "certify" and some companies want to do it others don't. Actual use in motorcycles and analysis by folks on this forum show what non-JASO non-energy conserving oils are perfectly suited and perform incredibly well in a shared sump. It is a plain old fact of oil that synthetic oil's do not shear down to the extent or as quickly as a conventional oil in a shared sump. Plenty of reading on this forum and anywhere else to support that.
 

AtomicNumber53

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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
I've decided to remove a few oils from the list just because they really don't belong (due to not being JASO MA or Allison C-4 rated): - Castrol GTX 15W-40 - Quaker State 4x4 15W-40 - Mystik JT-8 10W-40 - Mystik JT-8 15W-50 - Mobil 1 FS X2 5W-50 - Castrol Edge 5W-50 I can't wait to see a spec sheet on the Rotella T6 15W-40, tho. It'll be one of only two synthetic 15W-40s, alongside the Royal Purple Duralec, which I doubt many people here use. Can't believe the T6 15W-40 took so long to get here!!
I think you just muddied the list now/ Many other oils besides the ones above that are on your list are not Jaso MA rated and the ones that claim that rating are not actually "approved" they just claim to meet the standard and really, the only one that claims to meet the standard yet not "approved" is Rotella. So you can just about throw all the diesel oils off the list and some motorcycle oils. Its your list, just pointing that out. Heck, you wont even see Mobil 1 motorcycle oil on the list yet you will see Warren Oil which I find interesting and maybe the suppler of the new Super Tech motorcycle oil? Would be interesting to find out. Here is the list - Click
WOW! That's an amazing list right there. I'll have some fun with that later. Every oil on my list has been acknowledged, or claimed, by the manufacturer to be suitable for wet clutches in one form or another, whether it be JASO MA or Allison C4 / Caterpillar TO-4. Whether they pay for the certification or not is really immaterial, I believe... because most would feel it's not going to gain them more profit than the cost of the certification itself. And I'm fine with that. But if a manufacturer specifically claims that one of their oils meets the JASO MA spec, but their others don't (Mystik JT-8 is a great example here, as well as the Castrol GTX -- it was the *only* HDEO on the list that doesn't claim to meet the Allison C4 spec).... I only have their words of acknowledgment to go on, which seems to be spot on the majority of the time. It's when manufacturers *don't* give us info (HTHS, anyone?) that we believe there's something sketchy going on. I talked about a few other examples, where the manufacturers of certain racing motorcycle oils flat out acknowledge that that they don't MEET the JASO MA spec, because they have extra moly for absolute top speed. This was the Lucas 10w-40 with Moly and the Valvoline VR1 20w-50. If the manufacturer is telling its customers not to use it in their daily driver, then I don't see why you wouldn't want to listen to them. Sure, people can use it and their clutches might not slip.... but is it really worth the gamble when there's plenty of other available options?
 
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AtomicNumber53

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Originally Posted by krismoriah72
If you are in for a penny you may as well be in for a pound.. Lets see some kind of proof that makes a synthetic better than a conventional, and lets see some proof that one oil with JASO MA has more or less of this or that that makes it superior in wet clutches. 1) How or why is synthetic oil better in a shared sump? 2) JASO MA - What additives/properties or lack thereof make it superior?
I feel like Bonz answered the second question well enough. From what I can tell, Energy Conserving oils (the text at the bottom of the API donut seal) have Friction Modifiers that are harmful to clutches. Moly is the #1 offender for wet clutches from what I understand. It is added to SOME racing motorcycle oils, but they are explicitly warned by the manufacturer not to use them on the street in their daily driver. Basically, the safest options in motorcycle oils claim to meet or exceed the JASO MA, Allison C4, or Caterpillar TO-4 certs. Most don't pay for the actual cert, but some of them are flat out claiming one of their oils meets it while another doesn't.... and I will take their word for it. As for #1... I'm fairly certain that there's plenty of evidence around BITOG that proves synthetic will typically prevent wear better than conventionals. BUT.... this is obviously not always the case, as Silkolene's options on my list has the lowest flash point, you can see it's actually an inferior basestock from the rest of the synthetics. UOA's around here prove that this Silkolene 10w-40 will give your engine increased wear. Not good! The good synthetics should decrease wear over conventionals. HOWEVER.... if you look in my spreadsheet, you can see the synthetics have a higher viscosity index as opposed to the conventional HDEOs. This means that the synthetic basestocks are typically thinner, needing more synthetic viscosity improvers to keep the oil thicker as temps rise. The only problem is that these viscosity modifiers will shear much faster in our shared sumps than conventional oils. So, in my opinion, it's best to get a synthetic with a thicker basestock, as that's where the oil will end up with enough shearing. Transmissions need thicker oil that stays thick. And the synthetic part helps moreso with the engine wear. Conventional HDEOs are excellent options, also, and really might be best for consistently smoother shifting. But if the synthetic is best for the engine, and you can find one thick enough to resist shearing.... seems like that's the best option. My bike doesn't take 4 quarts of oil, tho... so I can pay a bit more for better oil if needed. If I had to fill up with 3.7 quarts, I'd definitely be filling it up with Rotella T4 and calling it a day. But again, this is all just my opinion. Do your own research and form your own opinions. Critical thinking pretty much means we seek out ways to disagree with others based on hunches or theories we have. I probably will add some conventional JASO MA rated oils to the list at some point. It just so happened that 95% of the motorcycle-specific oils I was looking at were already synthetic, so I just kinda gravitated toward synthetic-only options once I realized that.
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
I've decided to remove a few oils from the list just because they really don't belong (due to not being JASO MA or Allison C-4 rated): - Castrol GTX 15W-40 - Quaker State 4x4 15W-40 - Mystik JT-8 10W-40 - Mystik JT-8 15W-50 - Mobil 1 FS X2 5W-50 - Castrol Edge 5W-50 I can't wait to see a spec sheet on the Rotella T6 15W-40, tho. It'll be one of only two synthetic 15W-40s, alongside the Royal Purple Duralec, which I doubt many people here use. Can't believe the T6 15W-40 took so long to get here!!
I think you just muddied the list now/ Many other oils besides the ones above that are on your list are not Jaso MA rated and the ones that claim that rating are not actually "approved" they just claim to meet the standard and really, the only one that claims to meet the standard yet not "approved" is Rotella. So you can just about throw all the diesel oils off the list and some motorcycle oils. Its your list, just pointing that out. Heck, you wont even see Mobil 1 motorcycle oil on the list yet you will see Warren Oil which I find interesting and maybe the suppler of the new Super Tech motorcycle oil? Would be interesting to find out. Here is the list - Click
I guess I'm not understanding what you mean about the M1 4T motorcycle oil? I just snapped this off the back of my $5 Walmart bottle. I'm likely missing your point ?[Linked Image]
 
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"HOWEVER.... if you look in my spreadsheet, you can see the synthetics have a higher viscosity index as opposed to the conventional HDEOs. This means that the synthetic basestocks are typically thinner, needing more synthetic viscosity improvers to keep the oil thicker as temps rise. The only problem is that these viscosity modifiers will shear much faster in our shared sumps than conventional oils." What I hear you saying is some synthetic oils have a 5w50 or 10w50 rating (a large spread between the upper and lower numbers), whereas the conventional lubes are typically 15w40 or 20w50. By default, a synthetic oil is the best/only base to use for the wide viscosity range oils, so by default it HAS to be a thinner base to get the lower number. And as far as I know, viscosity index improvers are the same stuff whether it's a synthetic oil or a conventional oil. Thus, when the VI's are used to build up the viscosity across a wider range there is a lot more of them in there and they get used up quick (shear). For instance, I ran Valvoline conventional 10w40 ATV oil in my ZRX for 1400 miles. Sheared out of grade (11.1 cST) in that short time, and still had a flash point of 425 deg F. Shifting was getting stiff/not by. That shows no fuel dilution, thus the shear is all about the oil. Mobil 1 10w40 4T went 4603 miles, 11.98 CST and flashpoint of 410 deg F, so no appreciable fuel dilution either. Shifted fine for the entire OCI. Just showing how two same weight oils, one conventional and the other synthetic, perform very differently to help with the discussion.
 
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Originally Posted by troop
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
I've decided to remove a few oils from the list just because they really don't belong (due to not being JASO MA or Allison C-4 rated): - Castrol GTX 15W-40 - Quaker State 4x4 15W-40 - Mystik JT-8 10W-40 - Mystik JT-8 15W-50 - Mobil 1 FS X2 5W-50 - Castrol Edge 5W-50 I can't wait to see a spec sheet on the Rotella T6 15W-40, tho. It'll be one of only two synthetic 15W-40s, alongside the Royal Purple Duralec, which I doubt many people here use. Can't believe the T6 15W-40 took so long to get here!!
I think you just muddied the list now/ Many other oils besides the ones above that are on your list are not Jaso MA rated and the ones that claim that rating are not actually "approved" they just claim to meet the standard and really, the only one that claims to meet the standard yet not "approved" is Rotella. So you can just about throw all the diesel oils off the list and some motorcycle oils. Its your list, just pointing that out. Heck, you wont even see Mobil 1 motorcycle oil on the list yet you will see Warren Oil which I find interesting and maybe the suppler of the new Super Tech motorcycle oil? Would be interesting to find out. Here is the list - Click
I guess I'm not understanding what you mean about the M1 4T motorcycle oil? I just snapped this off the back of my $5 Walmart bottle. I'm likely missing your point ?[Linked Image]
Mobil 1 motorcycle oil in the 20w50 does not claim it meets Jaso Click here The Mobil 10/40 does claim to meet Jaso but not registered with Jaso as meeting the standard. Im not sure what point you are looking for *L* (just talking) You left diesel oils on your list that do not claim to meet Jaso standards but took others off your list for the same reason. As far as motorcycle specific oils, I simply made the statement that they claim to meet the Jaso standard but have not registered with Jaso and not on the list supplied by Jaso that I posted a link too. No big deal at all, just didnt know why you left some non Jaso diesel oils on the list and took others off. Also wanted to make people aware, that many oils claim to meet Jaso but they do not bother to register with Jaso, as supplied in the link I posted. This is just make sure we keep the words "claim" and "registered/approved" separate.
 
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AtomicNumber53

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Originally Posted by Bonz
What I hear you saying is some synthetic oils have a 5w50 or 10w50 rating (a large spread between the upper and lower numbers), whereas the conventional lubes are typically 15w40 or 20w50. By default, a synthetic oil is the best/only base to use for the wide viscosity range oils, so by default it HAS to be a thinner base to get the lower number. And as far as I know, viscosity index improvers are the same stuff whether it's a synthetic oil or a conventional oil. Thus, when the VI's are used to build up the viscosity across a wider range there is a lot more of them in there and they get used up quick (shear).
I'm no expert, but I think that's the gist of it.
Originally Posted by Bonz
For instance, I ran Valvoline conventional 10w40 ATV oil in my ZRX for 1400 miles. Sheared out of grade (11.1 cST) in that short time, and still had a flash point of 425 deg F. Shifting was getting stiff/not by. That shows no fuel dilution, thus the shear is all about the oil. Mobil 1 10w40 4T went 4603 miles, 11.98 CST and flashpoint of 410 deg F, so no appreciable fuel dilution either. Shifted fine for the entire OCI. Just showing how two same weight oils, one conventional and the other synthetic, perform very differently to help with the discussion.
Hmm.... maybe I was being too harsh on the Mobil 1 4T 10w-40 since I expected it to shear quicker, due to it starting at such a low KV100. I have no doubt that it's better than the Silkolene 5w-40, tho, with a flash point of 190. I've read that its UOAs show excessive wear, so it probably doesn't deserve to be on any list of "most ultimate motorcycle oils ever".... but ehh.... whatever. I've added the Mobil1 10w-40 back, tho, since my whole intention here was a list of oils that would resist shearing. Going from 13.4 to 11.98 cSt after 4603 miles proves it can resist some shearing! Just wonder if it could do that in an air-cooled bike!
 

AtomicNumber53

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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Mobil 1 motorcycle oil in the 20w50 does not claim it meets Jaso Click here The Mobil 10/40 does claim to meet Jaso but not registered with Jaso as meeting the standard. Im not sure what point you are looking for *L* (just talking) You left diesel oils on your list that do not claim to meet Jaso standards but took others off your list for the same reason. As far as motorcycle specific oils, I simply made the statement that they claim to meet the Jaso standard but have not registered with Jaso and not on the list supplied by Jaso that I posted a link too. No big deal at all, just didnt know why you left some non Jaso diesel oils on the list and took others off. Also wanted to make people aware, that many oils claim to meet Jaso but they do not bother to register with Jaso, as supplied in the link I posted. This is just make sure we keep the words "claim" and "registered/approved" separate.
All the diesel oils remained on the list, except for the Castrol GTX and two of the Mystiks (if you could even call those diesel oils, I dunno for sure), because they meet the Allison C4 and/or Caterpillar TO-4 specs, which are also designed around wet clutches, just like the JASO MA specs. This is why the spreadsheet has JASO MA / Allison C4 under the same column. When I realized that there was only a handful that didn't meet either JASO MA or Allison C4 specs, it kinda made sense that they really don't belong on such a list. Almost any oil that we purchase off the shelves, save the motorcycle manufacturer's own oils (think Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha, etc.) are not going to actually have the JASO MA certification; they are only going to claim that they meet or exceed that cert. But those motorcycle branded oils are typically a bit more expensive than the ones most easily found in the ubiquitous Walmarts and auto part stores... likely because those motorcycle manufacturers are trying to recoup the cost of that very cert!! shocked Moral of the story is that all the oils now on this list explicitly claim to meet or exceed one of the 3 wet-clutch certifications -- JASO MA, Allison C4, or Caterpillar TO-4. The last two aren't motorcycle-specific certs, but to the best of my knowledge, they are indeed wet-clutch certs.
 
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Air cooled bikes are a different beast for sure. My 1980 Yamaha XS1100 SG had a factory recommended 2,500 miles OCI. I could get about that mileage and shifting was falling off. 15w40, 20w50, didn't matter (Yamaha recommended 20w40 for hot temps, 10w30 for cooler temps way back in the day). In any event, with an air cooled engine tolerances are very different (much looser). With that, blow-by and oil contamination by the nature of that air cooled engine are real factors so the oil was dirty and ready to be changed by then. The contamination would be no different if I ran synthetic oil, so always ran a dino 15w40 or 20w50 with that length of an OCI. Never ran 10w30 in colder temps, 15w40 or 20w50 are fine for the once a month ride over the winter months with temps in the 40's. You are right on, the Mobil 1 10w40 4T starts as a thin 40 wt, as another member here said, because it has a racing designation they made it thin from the start. Running the Mobil 1 20W50 Vtwin oil right now in the ZRX. I like to try different oils and test them out of pure curiosity. Not many folks have run that oil (or at least posted an analysis) in a shared sump, always seem find the analysis for the Harley's though.
 
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Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
Originally Posted by Bonz
For instance, I ran Valvoline conventional 10w40 ATV oil in my ZRX for 1400 miles. Sheared out of grade (11.1 cST) in that short time, and still had a flash point of 425 deg F. Shifting was getting stiff/not by. That shows no fuel dilution, thus the shear is all about the oil. Mobil 1 10w40 4T went 4603 miles, 11.98 CST and flashpoint of 410 deg F, so no appreciable fuel dilution either. Shifted fine for the entire OCI. Just showing how two same weight oils, one conventional and the other synthetic, perform very differently to help with the discussion.
Hmm.... maybe I was being too harsh on the Mobil 1 4T 10w-40 since I expected it to shear quicker, due to it starting at such a low KV100. I have no doubt that it's better than the Silkolene 5w-40, tho, with a flash point of 190. I've read that its UOAs show excessive wear, so it probably doesn't deserve to be on any list of "most ultimate motorcycle oils ever".... but ehh.... whatever. I've added the Mobil1 10w-40 back, tho, since my whole intention here was a list of oils that would resist shearing. Going from 13.4 to 11.98 cSt after 4603 miles proves it can resist some shearing! Just wonder if it could do that in an air-cooled bike!
Also added the Motul 300V 10w-40 back in there, too... it's starting KV100 is even lower than the Mobil 1 10w-40... but it's HTHS is likely higher (dunno what the Mobil 1's HTHS is). And boy, look at it's flash point --- 250 deg C! The only oil with a higher flash point is the Liqu Moly Synth 4T, and that's a 10w-50. One spec is definitely not enough to judge an oil.
 
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AtomicNumber53

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Originally Posted by Bonz
You are right on, the Mobil 1 10w40 4T starts as a thin 40 wt, as another member here said, because it has a racing designation they made it thin from the start. Running the Mobil 1 20W50 Vtwin oil right now in the ZRX. I like to try different oils and test them out of pure curiosity. Not many folks have run that oil (or at least posted an analysis) in a shared sump, always seem find the analysis for the Harley's though.
When I first started looking into motorcycle oils... it was so very confusing to read one person say that it had to have the JASO MA rating, then others would say any xW-40 or xW-50 weight oil won't have those friction modifiers, then another would say some motorcycle oils do have friction modifiers, then the more and more people were saying that any universal diesel oil is fine in any motorcycle, yadda yadda, and then here comes the Harley guy claiming that he's used all types of oils with friction modifiers and it doesn't make a bit o' difference in his bike. Yea... because he doesn't have a shared sump! So then I'd go back to researching.... Almost any universal diesel oil should be fine with a wet clutch not simply because it's a universal diesel oil (with both API CK-4 & API SN ratings) or because it has extra ZDDP or other diesel detergents... but because almost all of them meet the C4 and TO-4 certs. At least, this is how I finally learned to reason with myself over the topic. Not many people really seem to understand the ins and outs of motorcycle oils and these certs... so hopefully someone reading this will actually understand the topic better. smile Definitely curious as to why Castrol GTX is the only one that doesn't claim to meet the C4 or TO-4 certs, tho. Very odd. EDIT: To answer my own question, I think the Castrol GTX line is based on a line of energy conserving oils, like 0w-20, 5w-20, 0w-30, 5w-30, 10w-30, etc. Their Diesel 15w-40 likely has more in common with those energy conserving oils (think "friction modifiers", "bad for clutch") than traditional HDEOs, which are more focus-oriented.
 
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I know Motul says it is an ester base, and with the low starting KV100 of 13.1, I don't understand a pour point of "only" -32.8 F. With the M1 4T 10w40 and a 13.4 KV100, it shows a -48 deg F pour point. M1 doesn't say if it has any ester content, but performance says it does. Here is a link to straight up comparisons of Motul 300V 10w40 and Mobil 1 4T 10w40. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3481549/Motul_300V_10W40_double_ester, That Motul 300V high flashpoint doesn't seem to hold up (tested at 405 deg F) and the Mobil 1 is rated at only 400 deg F, and the best run exceeds that @415 deg F, albeit for 700-ish fewer miles than the Motul was run for. I would judge them to be "equal".
 
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Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Mobil 1 motorcycle oil in the 20w50 does not claim it meets Jaso Click here The Mobil 10/40 does claim to meet Jaso but not registered with Jaso as meeting the standard. Im not sure what point you are looking for *L* (just talking) You left diesel oils on your list that do not claim to meet Jaso standards but took others off your list for the same reason. ... This is just make sure we keep the words "claim" and "registered/approved" separate.
All the diesel oils remained on the list, except for the Castrol GTX and two of the Mystiks (if you could even call those diesel oils, I dunno for sure), because they meet the Allison C4 and/or Caterpillar TO-4 specs, .. Moral of the story is that all the oils now on this list explicitly claim to meet or exceed one of the 3 wet-clutch certifications -- JASO MA, Allison C4, or Caterpillar TO-4. The last two aren't motorcycle-specific certs, but to the best of my knowledge, they are indeed wet-clutch certs.
No big deal, not at all, I always used either 15/40 diesel oil of Valvoine 20/50 4 stroke oil in my metrics, its just I am not seeing some of the ratings you are talking about in your spreadsheet, but then again, I have never checked any rating for diesel oil simply because they do not claim to meet Jaso (except Rotella which I did not like), as far as personal theories of non Jaso diesel oils meeting your requirements with other ratings that is personal decision and no problem with that and your certainly welcome to leave whatever you want off of your list. I only checked one which I did use at times and I am not seeing the rating here that you have in your spreadsheet, example ... Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 engine oil meets or exceeds the requirements of: API CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 / SN ACEA E9, E7 Caterpillar ECF-3 Cummins CES 20086, 20081 Isuzu DEO (w/ DPD-equipped vehicles) JASO DH-2 MAN M 3275-1 Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 engine oil is approved by the following OEMs: Detroit Fluids Specification 93K222 Deutz DQC II-10 LA Mack EOS-4.5, EO-O Premium Plus MB-Approval 228.31 Renault Trucks RLD-3 MAN M 3575 Volvo VDS-4.5, VDS-4
 
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Hmmm... I see that now. I know I was considering that oil specifically because I could see it didn't have moly in it, so I either assumed it had those certs and/or likely just did a quick Google of phrases that were 2,000 words apart. Perhaps it was some old stock that claimed to meet the cert? I'll definitely look into it in a few hours, when I'm a free man again!
 
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Don't worry about moly. Mobil 1 Racing 4T that meets JASO MA has a lot more moly in it than VR1 ('not recommended for wet clutches') which has little to none. Red Line motorcycle oils that are JASO MA have massive amounts of moly (hundreds of ppm's). I'd encourage you to go through the PCMO and HDEO sections of the forum and look at some of the threads there, as there have been some very good, in-depth and most importantly accurate (or as close to it as you can reasonably expect from a public forum) discussions about VII's, friction modifiers, the meaning/significance/importance of spec-sheet numbers, etc.
 
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Yeah, the moly in MC oils is the variety that is not gonna cause problems with the clutch. Redline MC oils are 350-450+ ppm on Moly in the UOA's around here. Interesting that my analysis last fall on M1 10w40 4T showed 3 ppm moly, however good amount of boron remained (162 ppm).
 
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Originally Posted by Bonz
Interesting that my analysis last fall on M1 10w40 4T showed 3 ppm moly, however good amount of boron remained (162 ppm).
Must be a formula change - I'd done a search for M1 4T oil analyses and the first hit showed 63ppm moly. That report was from 2011.
 
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