Design difference between 4cyl engines from America vs Japan

[nthach]

Ford’s HSC I4 was based on a British Ford design - so was the Escort at the time. GM and Chrysler’s efforts at the time were also based on either a VW/Mitsubishi design(Chrysler) or from other divisons - I think GM banked on Opel and GM Brazil for their non-Iron Duke 4s. GM’s Ecotec family was based on Opel, IIRC.

Ford is, IMO the most successful with their 4s but they also banked on their UK/German arm for the tech and later, Mazda.

 

[nthach]

How many pieces of mail have those things delivered?

Not just mail, but it found its way into many boats, gensets and farm equipment.

 

[john_pifer]

I believe the Japanese also always used forged crankshafts, also.

Lots of engines do, now, but it’s my understanding that they started doing it way back.

 

[dishdude]

Chrysler 2.4

 

[clinebarger]

I believe the Japanese also always used forged crankshafts, also.

Lots of engines do, now, but it’s my understanding that they started doing it way back.

Most likely not, I'm sure there are MANY Japanese engines utilizing Cast & Nodular Iron crankshafts. In fact breaking a crankshaft is quite rare on gasoline engines.

Domestic manufacturers were forging crankshafts before Japanese manufactures built cars, Although forgings were usually reserved for Performance & Heavy Duty/Industrial engines.

Fun Fact....ALL small block Chevy's built before 1963 had Forged Steel crankshafts

 

[clinebarger]

Not just mail, but it found its way into many boats, gensets and farm equipment.

The GM 153 4 cylinder was a 194 Chevy I6 with 2 cylinders cut off, Not to be confused with the 2.5L Iron Duke. Not sure which engine mail carrier trucks used?

The 153 4 is what the Mercruiser 3.0L is based on, And a TON of 153's were used in Fork Trucks....Hyster, Yale, & Toyota used them at one time or another. I've seen them with over 20,000 hours on the original long block. Of course.....Low RPM & LPG helped them achieve such high hours.

 

[Hall]

The Pinto engine ? They were German, which could explain their ability to keep going.

Yes, the 2.3 Lima.

German designed ? They were built in my hometown - Lima Ohio.

 

[PimTac]

German designed ? They were built in my hometown - Lima Ohio.

I believe they were a German design but I don’t remember the source. Then they built it in Ohio.

 

[Trav]

The HO Quad 4 was one of the hottest NA 4 cylinders when it came out, 180 hp out of a 2.3L in 1989 is quite impressive. They certainly had their issues though.

I got to test drive one of these at the GM plant in Framingham MA before it was released, amazing engine. The Saab Viggen kept the same 2.3 displacement and use all forged internals in the ecotec, these engines and the Saab 2.0T were as easily as good as anything that came out of japan. The blocks and internals were reportedly good for 600 HP right out of the box if you wanted to build it.

One of the nice things about Japanese engines for me is the small amount of tools required to disassemble the engine, you can get some apart with only 3 or 4 sockets.

Interesting article on the Quad 4.

Here's Why the Quad 4 Was One of GM's Most Important Engines Ever

The General needed something to compete with the imports. More specifically, it needed an efficient, modern four-cylinder engine.

jalopnik.com

 

[350Rocket]

The GM 153 4 cylinder was a 194 Chevy I6 with 2 cylinders cut off, Not to be confused with the 2.5L Iron Duke. Not sure which engine mail carrier trucks used?

The 153 4 is what the Mercruiser 3.0L is based on, And a TON of 153's were used in Fork Trucks....Hyster, Yale, & Toyota used them at one time or another. I've seen them with over 20,000 hours on the original long block. Of course.....Low RPM & LPG helped them achieve such high hours.

I think that's what was in the hyster forklift I used to use at the electrical wholesaler. It never broke. We just checked the oil which it didn't burn a drop. One day the company had been bought out and the new company requested our latest forklift safety inspection (and it hadn't been looked at for years). Management was scrambling to find out who to call which was funny to me. After that it got yearly safety and oil changes. The last maintenance guy told me what engine he thought it was. Barely had to touch the key to start that thing. It's probably still going 13 years later.

 

[meep]

Adding to @Cujet ’s post above, a big difference found with the toyota engines, at least back in the 70s and 80s was they figured out how to cast their materials with less porosity. Those fj40 straight sixes might not look any different than a Chevy i6 of the same era, the metal was more dense and wore less. A friend of mine has grown into a well known regional FJ shop as a side hobby, and we were amazed when pulling these 40 year old motors and finding their measurements superb inside. The seals might be done and oil everywhere, but the bores were usually strikingly straight and round. He later found out this was why.

there’s so much cross pollination in technology, I wouldn’t count on such an advantage today, but owning both a Ford and a Toyota product, ford uses plastics far more liberally than toyota. If that engineering value translates within, I’d expect similar long term results.

 

[nthach]

Adding to @Cujet ’s post above, a big difference found with the toyota engines, at least back in the 70s and 80s was they figured out how to cast their materials with less porosity. Those fj40 straight sixes might not look any different than a Chevy i6 of the same era, the metal was more dense and wore less. A friend of mine has grown into a well known regional FJ shop as a side hobby, and we were amazed when pulling these 40 year old motors and finding their measurements superb inside. The seals might be done and oil everywhere, but the bores were usually strikingly straight and round. He later found out this was why.

there’s so much cross pollination in technology, I wouldn’t count on such an advantage today, but owning both a Ford and a Toyota product, ford uses plastics far more liberally than toyota. If that engineering value translates within, I’d expect similar long term results.

The Japanese pioneered vacuum die casting I think - which helps reduce casting porosity from trapped gases and allows for more automation on the assembly line.

Funny enough, the Japanese(Mori Seiki, Fanuc, Kawasaki, Omron) and the Europeans(Kuka - now Chinese owned, ABB, Schneider Electric and Siemens) helped the Americans automate. Despite the spectacular misfires of robots on GM’s assembly lines when Roger Smith dove head-first into them.

 

[Motu]

I believe they were a German design but I don’t remember the source. Then they built it in Ohio.

We didn't see the 2.3 here, but the 1.6 and 2.0 were very common, used in the Cortina, Sierra and Transit...all being German designed British cars.

 

[2EHA]

Adding to @Cujet ’s post above, a big difference found with the toyota engines, at least back in the 70s and 80s was they figured out how to cast their materials with less porosity. Those fj40 straight sixes might not look any different than a Chevy i6 of the same era, the metal was more dense and wore less. A friend of mine has grown into a well known regional FJ shop as a side hobby, and we were amazed when pulling these 40 year old motors and finding their measurements superb inside. The seals might be done and oil everywhere, but the bores were usually strikingly straight and round. He later found out this was why.

there’s so much cross pollination in technology, I wouldn’t count on such an advantage today, but owning both a Ford and a Toyota product, ford uses plastics far more liberally than toyota. If that engineering value translates within, I’d expect similar long term results.

the F motors were long separated from the chevrolet six cylinder family of engines. they started from the pre-war stovebolt, the very first engine ever put into a toyoda vehicle, and modernized it with aspects of the second generation (i.e 235)

compared to the third generation chevy six (250, 292) they are pretty short lived motors. my 3FE was pretty much done at 150k, my buddy with an FJ60 had to rebuild his around the same.

 

[gregk24]

American and Japanese 4 cylinder engines are very similar to the point it's hard to pick them apart. Modern 4 cylinders are pretty much all aluminum, DOHC, timing chain driven, and have features like variable valve timing, plastic intake manifolds, etc. A Honda K24 is pretty similar to a Chrysler World Engine/TigerShark 2.4L or an GM Ecotec 2.4L. The newer engines are generally smaller and turbo charged, but again a Honda K20 Turbo is pretty similar to a Ecotec 2.0L Turbo. It's certainly no longer like in the 90's where GM was selling old all iron pushrod boat anchors like the Iron Duke or the 122 against much more modern and refined 4 cylinders like Honda's F22.

I can’t comment on similarity, though I have my doubts, but Honda and Toyota are still king when it comes to 4 cylinders. Engines in general actually.

 

[nthach]

And I found this on Jalopnik;

Here's Why the Quad 4 Was One of GM's Most Important Engines Ever

The General needed something to compete with the imports. More specifically, it needed an efficient, modern four-cylinder engine.

jalopnik.com

 

[ram_man]

Chrysler 2.4

View attachment 73895

Is this the world motor 2.4?

 

[dishdude]

Is this the world motor 2.4?

Yes.

 

[ram_man]

Yes.

Impressive, I’ve never seen to many flaws in that engine but it seems like it’s put in vehicles that most people destroy.

 

[ls1mike]

I ran a few of thes well past 260,000 miles. They had some head gasket issues, but a lot of 4cyl engines, including the Japanese engines, of that day did too.