Delvac 1/M1 5W-40 unsatisfactory in my '02 SAAB 9-5 Aero

quadrun1 · Aug 27, 2004

The verdict is in, Delvac 1/M1 "Truck & SUV" 5W-40 is unsatisfactory in my '02 SAAB 9-5 Aero.

Seems that it's simply too thick--increased vibration at idle (especially with the AC running) and the poorest gas mileage I've ever gotten, 21 mpg over the last two months! (Compared to a record 35+ mpg I got with M1 0W-40)

Drained it out today and put in German Castrol 0W-30 (red label); much better turbo response, vibration at idle practically gone.

This is not to say that D1 5W-40 is not a good oil--it's quite amazing in the current BMW 3.0-liter straight 6 gasoline engine, and it's *the* oil to use for diesel engines...

Dan4510 · Aug 28, 2004

You might have something mechanically wrong, going from 35mpg to 21 is a big drop just for an oil change.

Dan

2KBMW · Aug 28, 2004

Quadrun1. I don't understand how you
got such a drop in milage vs the mobil
0w40 when both are 40 weight oils.

Did this vibration happen all the time
or just when cold ?

XS650 · Aug 28, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
You might have something mechanically wrong, going from 35mpg to 21 is a big drop just for an oil change.

Dan

My thought too.

If there were that much extra energy being absorbed by the thicker oil it would eventually catch on fire.

Gary Allan · Aug 28, 2004

Mobil 1 0W-40
SAE Grade 0W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 80
cSt @ 100º C 14.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 187
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 3.6
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 236
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.855

Delvac 1

SAE Grade 5W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 102
cSt @ 100ºC 14.8
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 151
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.35
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 12
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 226
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.854

There doesn't appear to be a whole lot of difference between the two @ 100 C

Motorbike · Aug 28, 2004

Thats a huge difference if thought this way .

A nice little 5w-30 dino 61 @ 40c
typical 10w-40 dino 97 @ 40c

His record mileage was 35 mpg with the 0w-40 .

Maybe he mean't , yet forgot to post the average mileage with the 0w-40 .

Alot of full heat cycles , warm up with two oils and one being 80@ 40c , the other 102@ 40c I could see where fuel mileage could suffer in a smaller engine during the warm-up phase .

Especially since the M1 0w-40 will thin down a bit .

EDIT :

BTW , the 0w-40 is Saabs new dealer oil for the turbo motors . Don't take this the wrong way but if Saab/GM had thought the 5w-40 to be better in these engines don't we think they would have chose the diesel oil ?

[ August 28, 2004, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

Gary Allan · Aug 28, 2004

quote:

Don't take this the wrong way but if Saab/GM had thought the 5w-40 to be better in these engines don't we think they would have chose the diesel oil ?

Unlikely. Availability and distribution outside of the dealer network is not developed....is there a ZDDP issue with the Delvac 1 that isn't with the 0w-40 for catylist protection???

Would enough Saabs be on the road to justify having it carried in the local chain stores??

quote:

Alot of full heat cycles , warm up with two oils and one being 80@ 40c , the other 102@ 40c I could see where fuel mileage could suffer in a smaller engine during the warm-up phase .

Sure ..they all do. But for a recorded 35 mpg ..I doubt that too much was during warm up. Also a 40% reduction in fuel economy with virtually any oil in service would be out of virtually any "norm" that one could imagine. 5-10% would even be doubtful (scoffed at by most).

Motorbike · Aug 28, 2004

I am a victim of selective reading

Just razzin ,please don't take it any other way .

That 35mpg certainly could have been achieved in a few hours on one hiway trip . Just thought I would point that out , again

Why would their be a phos issue ?

Mobil 5w-40 VOA

GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B -025 specs that the 0w-40 meets is one probable good reason to use the SuperSyn vs the Truck oil in that motor .

One of the worlds best gasoline engine oils just happens to be one of the worlds best diesel engine oils too

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/EUXXENPVLMOMobil1TurboDiesel_0W40.asp

I would use the 0w-40 but it's too thick for all but one of my engines

Might try it at 200k though

[ August 28, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

Gary Allan · Aug 28, 2004

quote:

I am a victim of selective reading Just razzin ,please don't take it any other way .

No! I want to throw a temper tantrum!!!!

quote:

Why would their be a phos issue ?

I was sure that I had read (here and on the Rotella board) that some element (I thought it was zinc ..but phos is just as good to my "challenged" self

) could shorten cat life.

It was allegedly something inherent to diesel oils (most). It was naturally pointed out that blowby and perhaps consumption would be required for the stuff (whatever it is) to damage the cat.

Either way ...if this Saab story has a happy ending with GC or some other lighter weight oil ...cool

I'm just surprised that "The Holy Grail" of oil has caused (it's only alleged, folks!) this engine to falter so....

buster · Aug 28, 2004

quote:

Don't take this the wrong way but if Saab/GM had thought the 5w-40 to be better in these engines don't we think they would have chose the diesel oil ?

Agree.

Delvac 1 is a deisel oil first, gas oil second IMO. I used it and my car was sluggish too. Just use the 0w-40 instead.

Mamala Bay · Aug 28, 2004

I have no issue and MPG did go down but will admit it felt like a heavy oil. After 3K, oil seems fine...have no issue..Might be the Mobil 0w-40 is better suited for your engine..

Flimflam · Aug 28, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by quadrun1:

Seems that it's simply too thick--increased vibration at idle (especially with the AC running) and the poorest gas mileage I've ever gotten......(abbreviated....)

Drained it out today and put in German Castrol 0W-30 (red label); much better turbo response, vibration at idle practically gone.

This is not to say that D1 5W-40 is not a good oil--it's quite amazing in the current BMW 3.0-liter straight 6 gasoline engines........

Hey, truck weight 5w-40's and 15w-40's can sometimes cause an increase in vibration. But no harm done. Your engine will be better off with the increased film strength and better additive package.

moribundman · Aug 28, 2004

I'm using D1's ugly little brother M1 5W-40 in my normally aspirated Audi 2.8. Very smooth at all any RPM, with no decrease in gas mileage compared to M1 0W-40.

quadrun1 · Aug 28, 2004

OK, those figures might seem exaggerated and I'll admit I wasn't exactly comparing apples to oranges--city versus highway. But fuel economy did suffer, as I keep very detailed records.

Allow me to clarify:

With M1 0W-40 my usual "city" fuel economy is about 24-26 miles per gallon. With Delvac 1 5W-40 it went down to 21. The EPA's city rating is 22 mpg for my particular car.

With M1 0W-40 my best ever highway fuel economy (long summer trip, cruise control at 70-75 mph) was 35 mpg. With Delvac 1 5W-40 the best ever was about 30. EPA highway rating for my car is 31 mpg.

On the other hand, in our '03 BMW 330xi, with Delvac 1 5W-40, the engine is smoother than with M1 0W-40, and gas mileage is the same (always poor! LOL... 18 MPG city, always...)

Delvac 1 is probably just too viscous for the SAAB four banger.

Motorbike · Aug 29, 2004

Please report back with hiway mileage using the 0w-30 purple oil if you can .

Motorbike · Aug 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by quadrun1:

With M1 0W-40 my best ever highway fuel economy (long summer trip, cruise control at 70-75 mph) was 35 mpg. With Delvac 1 5W-40 the best ever was about 30. EPA highway rating for my car is 31 mpg.

Thanks for the post .

Results straight from the field

tpi · Aug 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by quadrun1:

With M1 0W-40 my best ever highway fuel economy (long summer trip, cruise control at 70-75 mph) was 35 mpg. With Delvac 1 5W-40 the best ever was about 30. EPA highway rating for my car is 31 mpg.

You are testing something here but it isn't the oil. The difference between the two oils doesn't add up to a 15% fuel economy penalty. The 5W-40 is not abosrbing the energy of 1 gallon out of 7 burned.

In your first post you mentioned a rougher idle. I'd look into a misfire situation or other ign/fuel problem. It may be intermittent making it more difficult to diagnose.

vvk · Aug 29, 2004

Nice car

Try Castrol GTX 10W-30 in your EJ20 engine. You'll like it!

Eiron · Aug 30, 2004

Will you be doing a UOA? [Cut&paste from SaabNet:]

I had completely different results with M1 5W-40 in my '99 9³'s 2.0 lpt. Compared to M1 0W-40, the engine is both quiter & smoother, with absolutely no loss in either turbo response or mileage.

Both of these oils are diesel-style formulations, so aside from slight viscosity differences, both are excellent for diesel engine use (as would be M1 15W-50). And since all of Saab's own oils have been diesel-style formulations, I guess I don't see any conflicts in that respect. Just out of curiosity, is GC B3/B4 rated?

To say I'm surprised you could feel that much of a difference between two premium full syns of near-identical formulation would be an understatement! I'm glad you identified it as being unsatifactory only for your Aero, & not everybody's else's as well.
_____________

Motorbike,

Don't forget that GM's concern is $$$ as well as product protection. Going from a syn blend 5W-30 (the previous recommended oil) to a full syn 0W-40 (the current required oil) gives them both, in the form of better fuel economy, longer drains, & a more durable/protective oil. In fact, fully synthetic 0W-40 has been Factory Fill in all turbocharged Saabs since 2000, so they realized the need for better oil quite a while ago. In Europe, Saab offers a full syn 0W-40 (ACEA A3 rated) to turbo owners, while here in the U.S. we only get the oil offered to non-turbo GM/Opel owners (a full syn 0W-30, ACEA A5 rated).

I believe the GM-LL eco-spec & the U.S.'s CAFE requirements are the sole reasons why a 0W-40 was formulated when a near-identical 5W-40 already existed.

1sttruck · Aug 30, 2004

Since I have a bunch of 5W-40 Mobil 1 Truck & SUV and Delvac 1300 15W-40 laying around for the use in the truck I thgought I'd try it on our '93 Taurus. It has over 174k miles on it, and I've been using a 1 qt synthetic to 4 qts dino blend for awhile now, typically Havoline as it's a good buy when on sale. I used 2 qts of the Mobil 1 and 3 qts of the Delvac. I had what sounded like lifter ticking for a few miles, a rough idle at start up for few weeks, a rougher idle than I remember when it was warmed up, but it sure was quiet and smooth on the freeway. Now that I have a couple of thousand miles on it the idle has smoothed out a lot, except when it's cool in the morning. It runs very smooth and quiet otherwise. With fall coming on I'll change to a a blend of the Mobil 1 T&S with some Mobil 5w-30 dino, and stay with that blend as the 15w-40 seems like it's probably a bit thick.

I'm guessing that the rougher idle might be due to the thicker oil changing how the hydraulic lifters are working, as they seem more normal when it's warmed up.

Delvac 1/M1 5W-40 unsatisfactory in my '02 SAAB 9-5 Aero

Similar threads