Only if it's not an Extended Guard! Amazing how a company can make one thing so well and the rest so poorly!
Defective MicroGard MGL6607
- Thread starter flstffxe
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Originally Posted By: flstffxe
For me it was just a filler item, so I didn't mind taking it as it allowed me to post it, reminding people to always inspect before buying/installing.
And thanks for doing it! And for an informational tidbit. I didn't know Fram (Allied Signal) was the source mfr. for those filters. Seeing one cut apart, the Fram DNA is obvious.
For me it was just a filler item, so I didn't mind taking it as it allowed me to post it, reminding people to always inspect before buying/installing.
And thanks for doing it! And for an informational tidbit. I didn't know Fram (Allied Signal) was the source mfr. for those filters. Seeing one cut apart, the Fram DNA is obvious.
A guy on my forester forum cut one upen and found the center tube absent! This is a defect not a design aspect. I'll look for a link ...
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f113/subaru-oil-filter-comparison-99130/index2.html
post #28
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f113/subaru-oil-filter-comparison-99130/index2.html
post #28
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I'd rather have a cartridge than a spin on for this reason. I've seen a lot of defects on this forum but that one probably takes the cake. People around here get worked up from a metal sliver in the threads of a filter or a mis-punched hole in the support tube, either of which probably isn't even relevant. This almost surely would have collapsed and probably cratered the engine.
Quality control and/or poka-yoke was obviously completely absent from the manufacturing of this filter.
Quality control and/or poka-yoke was obviously completely absent from the manufacturing of this filter.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
i think its a bit bogus to put that on a non-biased thread documenting the internals of filters. It should be called out to look out for, but one case in a few hundred isnt appropriate.
I imagine flstffxe included it because the thread IS non biased and informational Big Brother
Comb-overs fail, toasters fail, filters fail. I will say though, once working as a pro mechanic and maintaining my own vehicles, ive installed thousands of filters - but most of the "soft" failures ive had were a leaky can-to-base crimps on Purolator and wix or leaky base gaskets (at a rate delco on GM apps).
Sorry for the repost, though.
i think its a bit bogus to put that on a non-biased thread documenting the internals of filters. It should be called out to look out for, but one case in a few hundred isnt appropriate.
I imagine flstffxe included it because the thread IS non biased and informational Big Brother
Sorry for the repost, though.
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I take this with a grain of salt. SO much of what get posted on the internest is false or made up....
How many prople send these back to the Mfgr and then post the reply they get? Answer: none
How many prople send these back to the Mfgr and then post the reply they get? Answer: none
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It's easy to give a filter a good look out of the box before buying (unless the box is shrink wrapped like some FRAMs). Look down the center hole for any obvious problems, look through the base holes for the ADBV and make sure it's seated right, shake the filter around to see if anything is loose inside. If you really want to get nuts when nobody is looking, give it the "ADBV blow test".
Like zee0 says, check the one your buying - esp if its shrink wrapped!
Every company makes and ships a certain % of defects - it comes with manufacturing anything regardless of QA QC systems.
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My ford ranger truck didnt have 2 cab/front clip bolts tightened to chassis. Now, these are checked by a computer QC wired to the torque wrench and alarm and print out FAIL sheet if missed. So how did that get out? Can anyone say disgruntled workers? Hangover? Brain Haze? Sad to say though, The Twin Cities plant is closed now, right?
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My ford ranger truck didnt have 2 cab/front clip bolts tightened to chassis. Now, these are checked by a computer QC wired to the torque wrench and alarm and print out FAIL sheet if missed. So how did that get out? Can anyone say disgruntled workers? Hangover? Brain Haze? Sad to say though, The Twin Cities plant is closed now, right?
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
It's easy to give a filter a good look out of the box before buying (unless the box is shrink wrapped like some FRAMs). Look down the center hole for any obvious problems, look through the base holes for the ADBV and make sure it's seated right, shake the filter around to see if anything is loose inside. If you really want to get nuts when nobody is looking, give it the "ADBV blow test".
Hah hah that's me buying a filter right there!
Seriously I've found several "used" filters in new boxes that way as well, which has saved me the hassle of a return trip and having to try to explain that I was not the one who "used" it.
It's easy to give a filter a good look out of the box before buying (unless the box is shrink wrapped like some FRAMs). Look down the center hole for any obvious problems, look through the base holes for the ADBV and make sure it's seated right, shake the filter around to see if anything is loose inside. If you really want to get nuts when nobody is looking, give it the "ADBV blow test".
Hah hah that's me buying a filter right there!
Seriously I've found several "used" filters in new boxes that way as well, which has saved me the hassle of a return trip and having to try to explain that I was not the one who "used" it.
Originally Posted By: Rand
I always take everything alleycat says with a # of salt.
I'm still wondering how "watery thin ilsac oils" make a filter run in bypass most of the time.
This is where common sense may be trumped by fluid dynamics. Recall its the pressure differential (psiD) across the media; fluid dumps out of the mains with less impedance than when more viscous. There is quite the logjam post filter with 100cSt fluid. Picture that its like opening the doors for a midnight black friday sale - vs leaving a ballgame after the 9th inning is up. Specific engine mains/rods clearances must be considered. Ask z06 if he has a study at hand - but some engines may be more prone to constant bypassing at high rpm. IIRC studies have been done on the notorious nissan v6's. Then ask Why does subaru spec a 23psid bypass on its "turbo"? I have to start saving linkys to these hot button issues for a proper footnote.
I always take everything alleycat says with a # of salt.
I'm still wondering how "watery thin ilsac oils" make a filter run in bypass most of the time.
This is where common sense may be trumped by fluid dynamics. Recall its the pressure differential (psiD) across the media; fluid dumps out of the mains with less impedance than when more viscous. There is quite the logjam post filter with 100cSt fluid. Picture that its like opening the doors for a midnight black friday sale - vs leaving a ballgame after the 9th inning is up. Specific engine mains/rods clearances must be considered. Ask z06 if he has a study at hand - but some engines may be more prone to constant bypassing at high rpm. IIRC studies have been done on the notorious nissan v6's. Then ask Why does subaru spec a 23psid bypass on its "turbo"? I have to start saving linkys to these hot button issues for a proper footnote.
FYI I merged two threads into this one since they both had same content.
Also removed some posts that were not needed.
Bill
Also removed some posts that were not needed.
Bill
Inspecting for manufacture defects, goes fore every brand. Not just the MicroGard that is being shown here.
How about a Motorcraft that is missing the ADBV.
As I said it happens from every manufacture. A little due diligence can save you a world of grief later on. It also pays to be some what familiar with the item you are looking at. In the case of the MicroGard it was easy to spot the missing shiny metal center tube. For the Motocraft not seeing the red ADBV would have been a warning.
How about a Motorcraft that is missing the ADBV.
As I said it happens from every manufacture. A little due diligence can save you a world of grief later on. It also pays to be some what familiar with the item you are looking at. In the case of the MicroGard it was easy to spot the missing shiny metal center tube. For the Motocraft not seeing the red ADBV would have been a warning.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Rand
I always take everything alleycat says with a # of salt.
I'm still wondering how "watery thin ilsac oils" make a filter run in bypass most of the time.
This is where common sense may be trumped by fluid dynamics. Recall its the pressure differential (psiD) across the media; fluid dumps out of the mains with less impedance than when more viscous. There is quite the logjam post filter with 100cSt fluid. Picture that its like opening the doors for a midnight black friday sale - vs leaving a ballgame after the 9th inning is up. Specific engine mains/rods clearances must be considered. Ask z06 if he has a study at hand - but some engines may be more prone to constant bypassing at high rpm. IIRC studies have been done on the notorious nissan v6's. Then ask Why does subaru spec a 23psid bypass on its "turbo"? I have to start saving linkys to these hot button issues for a proper footnote.
Yes, the filter's PSID is dependent on 3 factors:
1) Oil viscosity.
2) Oil flow rate.
3) Filter restriction factor (assume it stays constant with a clean filter).
When oil if hot and thin, there isn't much filter PSID even at very high oil flow rates. SuperBusa's thread (which has been linked to many times) helps understand this. I believe most quality oil filters will have a PSID curve very similar to the one produced in that thread.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1930719&page=1
The Subaru threads also focus around very high flow output oil pumps, and that's probably why Subaru has specified such a high PSI setting on the filter bypass valve specified for those Subaru engines. Subaru may also be trying to prevent frequent cold start-up bypass events by specifying a much higher bypass setting for the filter.
Keep in mind how the positive displacement (PD) oil pump and its pressure regulator valve also plays into all this. When the oil is cold, the PD oil pump should hit its pressure relief pressure with much less flow output, which means with cold oil the filter does get much thicker oil, but it also gets much less flow volume, which helps keep the PSID down with cold oil. I believe that if one uses a full synthetic oil of 5W-X or 0W-X and keep the engine RPM down on cold starts, that the filter probably won't go into bypass much or even at all if the engine RPM is keep down until the oil warms up some.
All this talk is assuming a new, clean filter. As a filter gets loaded up with crud, the resistance factor of the media will increase with time, and that will cause the bypass valve to open easier under the same conditions. For example, a new filter on a cold winter start-up may not go into bypass, but after 10K miles of use and loaded up with debris, it may go into bypass on a cold start quite often and stay open until the oil warms up significantly.
Originally Posted By: Rand
I always take everything alleycat says with a # of salt.
I'm still wondering how "watery thin ilsac oils" make a filter run in bypass most of the time.
This is where common sense may be trumped by fluid dynamics. Recall its the pressure differential (psiD) across the media; fluid dumps out of the mains with less impedance than when more viscous. There is quite the logjam post filter with 100cSt fluid. Picture that its like opening the doors for a midnight black friday sale - vs leaving a ballgame after the 9th inning is up. Specific engine mains/rods clearances must be considered. Ask z06 if he has a study at hand - but some engines may be more prone to constant bypassing at high rpm. IIRC studies have been done on the notorious nissan v6's. Then ask Why does subaru spec a 23psid bypass on its "turbo"? I have to start saving linkys to these hot button issues for a proper footnote.
Yes, the filter's PSID is dependent on 3 factors:
1) Oil viscosity.
2) Oil flow rate.
3) Filter restriction factor (assume it stays constant with a clean filter).
When oil if hot and thin, there isn't much filter PSID even at very high oil flow rates. SuperBusa's thread (which has been linked to many times) helps understand this. I believe most quality oil filters will have a PSID curve very similar to the one produced in that thread.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1930719&page=1
The Subaru threads also focus around very high flow output oil pumps, and that's probably why Subaru has specified such a high PSI setting on the filter bypass valve specified for those Subaru engines. Subaru may also be trying to prevent frequent cold start-up bypass events by specifying a much higher bypass setting for the filter.
Keep in mind how the positive displacement (PD) oil pump and its pressure regulator valve also plays into all this. When the oil is cold, the PD oil pump should hit its pressure relief pressure with much less flow output, which means with cold oil the filter does get much thicker oil, but it also gets much less flow volume, which helps keep the PSID down with cold oil. I believe that if one uses a full synthetic oil of 5W-X or 0W-X and keep the engine RPM down on cold starts, that the filter probably won't go into bypass much or even at all if the engine RPM is keep down until the oil warms up some.
All this talk is assuming a new, clean filter. As a filter gets loaded up with crud, the resistance factor of the media will increase with time, and that will cause the bypass valve to open easier under the same conditions. For example, a new filter on a cold winter start-up may not go into bypass, but after 10K miles of use and loaded up with debris, it may go into bypass on a cold start quite often and stay open until the oil warms up significantly.
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