Defective Fram Ultra? Missing ADBV leads to engine damage in 2018 Mazda6?

[derass]

Someone found a link to what the dealer was showing the OP.

Look at the bottom photo on the right. It looks like the ADBV can actually be ripped out of the filter and drawn into the engine. I suppose if the ADBV isn't "clamped" properly between the end cap and base plate it could happen.

I guess that photo was taken with the oil filter stud removed from the block. That hole looks much larger than usual. Also look at the photo to the left of it, it says "seal recovered from engine block".

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[Greasymechtech]

It would have to go thru the bypass valve

ADBV looks torn. Manufacturing defect? Or stabbed by Fram hating dealer employee?

 

[Job]

That could happen but very extreme case of bypass spring collapse causing the element to be loose. So loose that the oil flow pulls the adbv into the outlet pipe.
It seems this could happen to many filters with a heavy element and leaf type bypass spring. All the metal in an Ultra element does make it heavy.

 

[derass]

It would have to go thru the bypass valve

Couldn't the oil just pass through the filter media and then pull the ADBV into the engine?

That could happen but very extreme case of bypass spring collapse causing the element to be loose. So loose that the oil flow pulls the adbv into the outlet pipe.
It seems this could happen to many filters with a heavy element and leaf type bypass spring. All the metal in an Ultra element does make it heavy.

This is a good theory. It would explain why the ADBV wasn't clamped tightly between the end cap and base plate. I can't see oil flow pulling it out of a well-clamped joint.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Someone found a link to what the dealer was showing the OP.

Look at the bottom photo on the right. It looks like the ADBV can actually be ripped out of the filter and drawn into the engine. I suppose if the ADBV isn't "clamped" properly between the end cap and base plate it could happen.

I guess that photo was taken with the oil filter stud removed from the block. That hole looks much larger than usual. Also look at the photo to the left of it, it says "seal recovered from engine block".

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Keep in mind that most threaded spuds that an oil filter screws well into the base plate, and will protrude quite a ways into the center hole of the filter beyond the base plate. That might help act like a "wall" that would help prevent the ADBV from moving side-to-side.

But if it tore like in the dealership example, and if there was enough space for it to be forced through a gap due to lose guts, then it's possible it could do what the example shows. Question is - how did the ADBV tear ... we never see torn Fram ADBVs here like that from what I can recall.

Side note - always shake a spin-on filter (regardless of brand) to make sure it doesn't rattle before installing it.

 

[derass]

You're absolutely right about the stud extending past the base plate. Good point.

 

[haggler]

Don't grenade your engine just pay us 69.99 to change your oil to bulk 0w-20 and a jobber filter. That guy in the thread is getting worked. Dealer probably forgot to put oil when they did the oil change and caused damage. Maybe he can just have him change his other "valves."

 

[alarmguy]

@ZeeOSix ,

Slightly off topic but what would be the reason for a ADBV on these filters. On my CX5 the filter is about 3” X 2.5”. The volume it holds is maybe 8oz once the media is soaked.

I can see the purpose in a larger filter. Not much is going to drain back in these.

I dont think its the volume at all, there are plenty of small filters out there.
I think the key is the oil filter on Mazdas is completely perfectly vertical so there is no need for one. The top of the filter faces up and the bottom down. Nothing is sideways.
To me its perfect, one never has to rely on a properly working ADBV because the oil doesnt and can not flow back into the engine, the top of the oil filter faces up. What I like even more (not that is matters) but because the filter is straight up and down, no need for the ADBV and possible restriction on cold starts.

(I think there is something wrong with the "story" in this thread, nothing adds up)

 

[adams355]

Naughty Fram

 

[Strokenmerc]

Could be wrong, but I always thought the ADBV would keep some of the oil passages above the filter filled, not just the filter. This would apply no matter the orientation of the filter (vertical vs horizontal), except on a top mounted filter.

OTOH - if the filter was "rattling", seems the spring was compromised could cause enough space for the ADBV be pulled inside the element?

 

[Job]

Keep in mind that most threaded spuds that an oil filter screws well into the base plate, and will protrude quite a ways into the center hole of the filter beyond the base plate. That might help act like a "wall" that would help prevent the ADBV from moving side-to-side.

But if it tore like in the dealership example, and if there was enough space for it to be forced through a gap due to lose guts, then it's possible it could do what the example shows. Question is - how did the ADBV tear ... we never see torn Fram ADBVs here like that from what I can recall.

Side note - always shake a spin-on filter (regardless of brand) to make sure it doesn't rattle before installing it.

True but Frams have an adbv that extends well up into the element. You can see it through the base plate. Flowing oil could pull that extension down the hole and the whole valve with it. I think the picture shows it in the hole In the block.

 

[jeff78]

Notice the pictures all show the oil filters end-on - you can't see the side of the failed filter at all, so can you be sure they didn't cut it apart, remove the ADBV, and fake the failed filter?

But more telling - look at that 'seal lodged in the oil port' photo with the ADBV supposedly in it. WHAT is the ADBV in, exactly? I don't recognize that engine component. Where is the threaded boss for the filter?

The oil filter outlet opening on that filter is 20mm. However, the actual hole in the threaded boss that oil passes through is smaller. No way a whole ADBV is making it through that and into the engine.

If it looks like BS, smells like BS, and tastes like BS....

 

[SatinSilver]

No such thing as a 2018 Mazda 6 with a GS trim option for starters.

 

[michael007]

No such thing as a 2018 Mazda 6 with a GS trim option for starters.

The guy is in Canada, it exists here.

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[haggler]

2 scenarios: break from the filter (dirty) side or break from inside (clean). Both seem incredibly rare especially the latter.
1) From the dirty side, only way I could see this happening is if a small piece got bypassed. Bypass isn't gonna allow huge chunks through.
2) From the inside I just don't see how this could happen unless it was broken from the start. As others have said the center tube it screws on goes pretty low. So it's magically gonna tear?

Bottom line this is 1 in a million. Shake your filters if you're scared. If this did happen Id trust Fram to cover it. Additionally, we haven't seen Fram's adbv torn here. You're better off buying megamillions. The last thing I would trust is a dealership or dealership website.

 

[ZeeOSix]

True but Frams have an adbv that extends well up into the element. You can see it through the base plate. Flowing oil could pull that extension down the hole and the whole valve with it. I think the picture shows it in the hole In the block.

It's certainly possible that if there was a big enough gap because of very loose guts that the ADBV could get pushed/pulled into the center tube. It's possible the filter was missing the leaf spring all together which would allow the media cartridge to move upward quite a ways. Anything is possible with mass production. If the guy wants any chance of Fram to cover it if it's the filter's fault, nobody should be cutting that filter open, and let Fram diagnose it.

One reason I asked about how many miles were on this filter when this happened is because if it happened many thousands of miles after the filter was installed, then it makes it a more mysterious failure. If the filter had super loose guts from the beginning then I'd think the failure would have happened pretty soon after filter installation.

 

[michael007]

I spoke to the guy via PM on the local forum, he's just waiting for Fram to send him the retrieval kit

 

[mpack88]

Cut the filter open and if indeed the filter is defective and Mazda won't honor it get fram to put a engine in it

 

[ZeeOSix]

Cut the filter open and if indeed the filter is defective and Mazda won't honor it get fram to put a engine in it

Last thing you want to do it cut it open ... Fram needs to cut it open.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The thing is, if the ADBV went into the engine and the shop didn't find the ADBV, and it's not inside the filter, then it probably wasn't there to begin with. If it did go in the engine, and was never removed (and still inside the engine) and the shop claims the oil pressure went back up with a new filter then how can it still be inside the engine?