Deceptive car salesman loses a sale

[ARCOgraphite]

This is a screenshot of a text conversation between myself (green) and a salesman. I test drove a Toyota Venza last week and he had texted me a couple of times to try to convince me to come back in and buy the car, which I was actually strongly considering. I responded to the last of his messages with "Make me an offer" and the rest of the exchange is below.

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I was prepared for him to tell me $10K OTD was a firm price, but I was not prepared for him to tell me it was an imaginary one. There's no way I'm rewarding these tactics with a sale even if he comes back down to the initial dishonest offer. Doesn't his offer of $10K appear to be a legitimate offer, not "throwing out numbers," or am I wrong here?

My read is Buyer's Fault for lowballing on a text negotiation and "wimpy" interest. Possibly PO'd the floor mgr. but doubt he asked. This kind or negotiation has to be done face to face. Oh well live and learn.

What's the Black book (Galves) on this old Camry wagon? - Arco

 

[slo town]

My read is Buyer's Fault for lowballing on a text negotiation and "wimpy" interest. Possibly PO'd the floor mgr.

That's my thought as well. Sales is a rough business. Too bad, so sad that someone may have gotten butt hurt. Oh well, next!

Scott

 

[Elkins45]

My read is Buyer's Fault for lowballing on a text negotiation and "wimpy" interest. Possibly PO'd the floor mgr. but doubt he asked. This kind or negotiation has to be done face to face. Oh well live and learn.

What's the Black book (Galves) on this old Camry wagon? - Arco

A guy throws out a first number and I counter at 95% and that’s a lowball?

 

[Elkins45]

He only lost the sale to you - he did not lose the sale entirely if he got another buyer.

He’s not the only salesman on the lot. He makes $0 if someone else moves it.

Once he set the expectation of a certain price he killed any chance of my paying more. Don’t throw out a number if it isn’t real. Once you tell me we’re having steak for dinner don’t being me a hamburger…even though I like hamburgers.

 

[supton]

Once he set the expectation of a certain price he killed any chance of my paying more. Don’t throw out a number if it isn’t real.

I think I agree. He raised the price after the fact. In a different setting, if I was selling something, after playing 20 questions and was tired of dealing with someone wasting my time, I'd be tempted to raise the price as a "get out of my life" move. It'd kill the deal or at least sour the process--which is the point, I'd rather sell to someone else. Maybe this salesguy is doing the same thing, either hoping you'll bite anyhow, or they need to focus on other fish.

If nothing else they could have stuck with $10k OTD. Then while signing, brought in the F&I guy to add in warranties, service, what have you. That's how my last purchase went, the sales agreement had OTD circled on it--I think that was some internal marking for telling the next person in the process to press all the harder. I don't think it's any less shady but it may have made the deal go faster.

 

[2005jettatdi]

We were looking for a new Civic for my wife in November, 2014. The local dealer wanted too much. I contacted the dealer in N Las Vegas and got an offer nicely below MSRP. Being a sucker,, we drove up on Black Friday to see how it would go. The nice young black man met us and let us test drive the car. Then, the amazing part, wrote it up for the quoted price, took it to the tower and came back with it approved. I finally asked him what was going on that they were willing to sell it for such a good price. He told me almost all of their deals involved trying to work out financing, etc. It was so nice to be able to just sell and finance a car. I guess most people have 500 - 600 credit scores, ours has been over 800 for around forever. We drove it home.

 

[Allaned]

This is correct. The funny part is that I probably would have done the deal at $10k if he had told me it was the bottom. Once he admitted it wasn’t even a real offer I’m done. Who knows if the $11k offer would even be valid once I was at the dealership?

It’s hardly a unique vehicle and I’m in no hurry. I’m confident something even better will come along.

That sounds like the correct approach. It is always better for the buyer when he doesn’t need a vehicle right now. Take your time and search.

 

[Astro14]

He’s not the only salesman on the lot. He makes $0 if someone else moves it.

Once he set the expectation of a certain price he killed any chance of my paying more. Don’t throw out a number if it isn’t real. Once you tell me we’re having steak for dinner don’t being me a hamburger…even though I like hamburgers.

I get how it works.

And I agree that he killed a chance of a higher sale price by throwing out the $10K. That was a potential negotiating mistake on his part, but it does not mean he lost. Because you drug your feet, it’s entirely possible that somebody else came in and was willing to buy the car.

If he sells it to a different buyer for a higher price than your OTD, then he didn’t “lose a sale” - he actually made more money. He won, in other words.

The only person that we can be certain “lost” in this deal is you. You did not get the car you want at the price you want.

Unless you know who sold the car and for how much, you have no way of knowing that this salesman “lost”. Part of his commission is based on the sale price.

He may have made a lot more money selling this car to somebody else than he would have selling to you.

He may have “won”.

 

[CKN]

This thread is really about someone who didn't want a vehicle bad enough. The salesman coming back at $10,900ish dollars after a $10,000.00 offer is made is nothing to get head hurt about.
Many on here claim to good negotiators-but obviously don't buy vehicles often enough to know "how to play the game".
It's not "tactics"...its business negotiations.

 

[jeepman3071]

I get it that they play these games, but it is deceiving to start off the conversation saying the price is "X" out the door, then after negotiating saying it is somehow higher now. I don't play these games. I firmly tell them this is what I'm offering. If they decline I walk. You'd be surprised how many will call back, even if it is a day or two later.

 

[jeepman3071]

This thread is really about someone who didn't want a vehicle bad enough. The salesman coming back at $10,900ish dollars after a $10,000.00 offer is made is nothing to get head hurt about.
Many on here claim to good negotiators-but obviously don't buy vehicles often enough to know "how to play the game".
It's not "tactics"...its business negotiations.

That's the thing, for 900 bucks if it is a car you want and something that is hard to find, is it really worth walking?

 

[mrsilv04]

I had one who waited until the last possible moment to mention the $995 Ceramic paint treatment, that had supposedly already been applied.

I walked.

 

[CKN]

That's the thing, for 900 bucks if it is a car you want and something that is hard to find, is it really worth walking?

He didn't counter offer at $10,450.00/split the difference. The dealer probably wouldn't let him walk over $400.00.......

When I bought my 2023 Silverado-which was a substantially more expensive vehicle than the Venza, there was some sort of $400.00 "mandatory Fee". I told the sales person I wasn't paying it. But he said it was "mandatory". I told him I wasn't paying it. He talked to the Manger and it was waived.

 

[CKN]

I get it that they play these games, but it is deceiving to start off the conversation saying the price is "X" out the door, then after negotiating saying it is somehow higher now. I don't play these games. I firmly tell them this is what I'm offering. If they decline I walk. You'd be surprised how many will call back, even if it is a day or two later.

It's "Standard Operating Procedure". The whole car buying experience is deceiving-usually. Again-walking on to a dealer's lot (or otherwise communicating) IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART-or otherwise easily offended!

 

[SeaJay]

Texts mean nothing. Likewise, phone calls, emails or smoke signals mean nothing. Verbal assurances mean nothing.

Sitting down with a contract (possibly online) to signoff on, along with a detailed list of how the bottom line number that you are comfortable with was gotten to ensuring you know exactly what you are paying for is absolutely essential. If a new vehicle, reviewing the Monroney Label to ensure the car you are getting has the same VIN as the contract as well as the features you think you are paying for is an essential step.

Anything less can lead to disapointment, any rules that you think should hold are often enough fluid.

 

[2005jettatdi]

He didn't counter offer at $10,450.00/split the difference. The dealer probably wouldn't let him walk over $400.00.......

When I bought my 2023 Silverado-which was a substantially more expensive vehicle than the Venza, there was some sort of $400.00 "mandatory Fee". I told the sales person I wasn't paying it. But he said it was "mandatory". I told him I wasn't paying it. He talked to the Manger and it was waived.

In most states, the paperwork fee in mandatory in that if the dealership charges it, they must charge the same on ALL sales. So, the manager cannot waive it. However, you can insist the sales price be reduced by that much. I am assuming that is what happened when the Manger (sic) waived the fee.

 

[CKN]

In most states, the paperwork fee in mandatory in that if the dealership charges it, they must charge the same on ALL sales. So, the manager cannot waive it. However, you can insist the sales price be reduced by that much. I am assuming that is what happened when the Manger (sic) waived the fee.

It wasn't a paperwork fee...but a "junk fee" of something. I just can't remember what.

 

[Elkins45]

This thread is really about someone who didn't want a vehicle bad enough. The salesman coming back at $10,900ish dollars after a $10,000.00 offer is made is nothing to get head hurt about.
Many on here claim to good negotiators-but obviously don't buy vehicles often enough to know "how to play the game".
It's not "tactics"...its business negotiations.

You’re half-right. I didn’t want the vehicle bad enough. You should never want a vehicle so badly you go over the number you set for yourself before you drive into the lot.

But you’re wrong in that you seem to think I was the one who made the initial $10k offer. He did.

 

[Elkins45]

We were looking for a new Civic for my wife in November, 2014. The local dealer wanted too much. I contacted the dealer in N Las Vegas and got an offer nicely below MSRP. Being a sucker,, we drove up on Black Friday to see how it would go. The nice young black man met us and let us test drive the car. Then, the amazing part, wrote it up for the quoted price, took it to the tower and came back with it approved. I finally asked him what was going on that they were willing to sell it for such a good price. He told me almost all of their deals involved trying to work out financing, etc. It was so nice to be able to just sell and finance a car. I guess most people have 500 - 600 credit scores, ours has been over 800 for around forever. We drove it home.

I bought my 2017 Nissan truck from a dealer four hours away in Tennessee based on the advertised price on their website. I tried to get the closest Nissan dealer to match +$1000 but they didn’t even come close and told me the price was a scam. I called to talk to a salesman and asked him to verify the total cost in an email, which he did. We drove down that weekend and I paid exactly what was quoted. Easiest and best car buying experience ever! I wish they could all be like that.

 

[ryster]

I believe in a court of law, this would have constituted a bona fide offer to sell it to you at $10,000 out the door. If you had immediately said, "Yes, I agree to purchase the 2XXX Toyota Venza at $10,000 out the door." that would have been a contract and they would have had no choice but to honor it. If they then changed the price, that would potentially be a breach of contract.

The $9,500 counter offer, likewise, was a bona fide offer. If the salesman had said "Yes, we will do the deal at $9,500 out the door on the 2XXX Toyota Venza", then that would have basically been a contract. If the person making the $9,500 offer then said "OK, I will get back to you on that...never mind." after the seller accepted the offer, that would have been just as problematic as the first scenario.

These types of seemingly informal interactions happen frequently, but that doesn't mean there isn't potential legal recourse if someone really wanted to play hard ball.

This is why car dealers really don't like to talk final pricing or make final offers via text messages or emails. Too many headaches and too much potential liability if someone is feeling feisty.