December 7th, 1941

[John_Conrad]

agree with astro14, over 1100 young men alone died on the arizona. this was not bait, this was japan's act of war on the u.s. their "official' method of declaration via teletype was nothing but a cowardly way of informing us just hours prior to the attack and we never really got "it".

 

[andyd]

O the front page of today's Quincy Patriot Ledger was an article about Bill Keith and his Pearl Harbor experience. He used to mind me and my brother in the "sinners booth" at church whilst our parents and his wife sang in the choir. Neither Bill or my father, along with most WWII vets said much about their service.

 

[KrisZ]

Japan attacks an installation that in the grand scheme of things was of little importance, US declares war on Japan, Germany in response declares war on US and US declares war on Germany. Nice, full circle we got here.

You guys are only confirming what I said. It worked so great back then that it was repeated not too long age as well. Worked like a charm and it was done with such an arrogance that the war was declared on guys not even involved.

And I never said US should have not retaliated. But there was no need to go to Europe, help the soviets or join the Allies. Before Pearl Harbor, that was the sentiment of most Americans as well. Obviously something needed to be done to change that sentiment.

As far as Canada, one word: Commonwealth.

 

[bullwinkle]

There have been several historical books relating how multinational corporations & financiers loaned money to & built plants in early 1930s Nazi Germany-not sure anyone could have predicted the monster that Hitler would become. We also were quite well aware that war was inevitable, our factories were switching to war materiel long before 12/7/41. That doesn't excuse the cowardly attack by Axis Japan-it was a miracle our aircraft carriers weren't there.

 

[Vuflanovsky]

Unfortunately, the "bait" was already in motion and had been for several years, so anyone advising that this conflict was somehow manageable with strategic interventions is delusional. My dad was a WWII vet and maybe you have to be of a certain age to view it outside the context of "revised" history or "recontextualizing" it in hindsight. The "revised" argument also shows up in the Hiroshima bomb context where it possibly might be more appropriate than viewing Pearl Harbor as a static action where cooler heads had to prevail to avoid "the bait". That's almost laughable in the context of the time.

 

[KGMtech]

Regardless of the tipping point for USA involvement, the risk of not stopping Nazi Germany from dominating Europe would have been a far larger problem for the world.

 

[Nick R]

Indeed, an infamous day to be sure. I follow quite a few Japanese artists on twitter, and a couple of them have mentioned it, expressing remorse for the actions of the Empire back in those days. It's certainly nice that PM Abe will be visiting the memorial to pay his respects later this month. And I certainly hope that the close relationship the US and Japan enjoy today continues to strengthen over the next few years.

 

[ls1mike]

Can we save that stuff for another day...

I was a SSBN (Trident Submarine sailor) for 11 years. We used to pull into Ford Island when visiting Pearl. A lot of the old buildings on the island still had damage from the attack that day.

I remember being topside and rendering honors as we passed by battleship row. There was never a dry eye.
Always asking yourself "Am I doing it right?" "Am I honoring the young people who scarified so much that day?" "Am I making difference?" I always hoped the answer was yes.

We would moor right behind what was left of the USS Utah. The Navy preformed colors on that ship daily as it was never decommissioned. I remember pulling in there before the bridge to the main land and the two Museums (Missouri and the Air Museum). It was a pretty empty island with a bunch of history. We/I always felt different, maybe better about what I was doing when I was on Ford Island. At the time the air field was used by the locals for touch and goes. Now it is all grown over. That was 20 years ago.

There is a Banyan tree on the Island just off the pier of where the Utah lays. It is said to have been there since before the War and sailors over the years would "Coke and Joke" underneath it. I remember walking over there a few times to see it and enjoy a few "beverages" below it's carved up branches with my fellow Submariners.

We would always wonder if any of the brave souls who were there on Dec. 7th had hung out under that same tree.

So if you can and want to take the time today to remember those who were there please do. These were all VERY young people with hopes, dreams and families who gave up everything in hopes of doing the right thing.

A little light reading about the other side of the island that is usually forgotten.
Utah and Detroit

 

[Panzerman]

I will have to agree alot of it doesn't make sense. Exactly what were the Japanese thinking, because all they really did was poke a giant industrial country then leave. If they would have had transports and invaded Hawaii or kept resupplying and kept up bombing operations to obligated all United States naval strength including transports and facilities, but really, two bombing runs and gone. What was Germany thinking of declaring war with United States, again makes no sense. If the Japanese and Germans were really tight. Why wouldn't Japan attack Russia from the East and stop thier production outside of German bombing range. Too many weird, no sense maneuvers. I never heard a good answer yet. Japan could have also routed the British fleet for the Germans, again bringing American made no sense.

 

[John_Conrad]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I will have to agree alot of it doesn't make sense. Exactly what were the Japanese thinking, because all they really did was poke a giant industrial country then leave. If they would have had transports and invaded Hawaii or kept resupplying and kept up bombing operations to obligated all United States naval strength including transports and facilities, but really, two bombing runs and gone. What was Germany thinking of declaring war with United States, again makes no sense. If the Japanese and Germans were really tight. Why wouldn't Japan attack Russia from the East and stop thier production outside of German bombing range. Too many weird, no sense maneuvers. I never heard a good answer yet. Japan could have also routed the British fleet for the Germans, again bringing American made no sense.


japan was angered at the u.s.a because of our oil embargo, they struck because of that and the economic warfare the embargo started! in my opinion japan did not coordinate with anyone, and that was their mistake. it is one which is deeply regretted by japan.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I will have to agree alot of it doesn't make sense. Exactly what were the Japanese thinking, because all they really did was poke a giant industrial country then leave. If they would have had transports and invaded Hawaii or kept resupplying and kept up bombing operations to obligated all United States naval strength including transports and facilities, but really, two bombing runs and gone. What was Germany thinking of declaring war with United States, again makes no sense. If the Japanese and Germans were really tight. Why wouldn't Japan attack Russia from the East and stop thier production outside of German bombing range. Too many weird, no sense maneuvers. I never heard a good answer yet. Japan could have also routed the British fleet for the Germans, again bringing American made no sense.


The interesting thing is, you are absolutely correct. Admiral Yamamoto knew attacking the US was a bad idea, that Japan didn't have the industrial base to maintain a long war against us. But the Emperor and upper echelons of the Empire wanted to get "Vengance" on the US for interfering. So he came up with the plan to attack Pearl, which was one of the few big weak points the US had. The aircraft carriers Shokaku, Zuikaku, and Hiryuu were ideal for this.

Pearl Harbor was a terrible tragedy indeed, but I have to admire the planning and execution of it by the IJN. They certainly were smart, and had the equipment for the job. It's hard to argue that at the beginning of the war, the US was not ready for a war with Japan, the IJN far outclassed what the US had in almost every way. Of course, that advantage disappeared once the US got the wheels of industry turning at top speed, thanks to efforts of shipyards like the New York Navy Yard, and Bath Iron Works.

I remember when I lived in Hawaii, and I visited the Arizona memorial. I was only in middle school at the time so I didn't fully understand it, but now, I want to make another trip back, to properly pay my respects, and then see the mighty mo again.

May the souls of those lost at Pearl Harbor find peace on eternal patrol. o7

 

[John_Conrad]

the planning and execution of the japanese was based on deceptive diplomacy and lack of a formal declaration of war. that is all plain and simple. had they really wanted to prevent the usa from interfering in their plans of taking more of china, they would have destroyed all the infrastructure that allowed us to rebuild and reorganize.

there was nothing smart or clever about the japanese attack on pearl harbor.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: John_Conrad
the planning and execution of the japanese was based on deceptive diplomacy and lack of a formal declaration of war. that is all plain and simple. had they really wanted to prevent the usa from interfering in their plans of taking more of china, they would have destroyed all the infrastructure that allowed us to rebuild and reorganize.

there was nothing smart or clever about the japanese attack on pearl harbor.


It's the difference between tactics, and strategy. Tactically, Pearl Harbor was a huge success. Strategically, to the whole war effort, it was a massive mistake.

 

[pbm]

When I was a teenager I worked for a WW2 vet who was the Commander of our local American Legion post. He was a Greek immigrant who went off to war in Europe (3rd Army with General Patton) when his wife was pregnant.....when he got home his son was almost 3.

He always believed that FDR knew Pearl Harbor was coming and allowed it to happen so that Americans would change their minds about entering the war.

PS: Pearl Harbor wasn't the first 'sneak attack' by the Japanese navy....Google 'Battle of Port Arthur' in 1904.....

 

[turtlevette]

The Toyota-thon normally starts today. The big end of year clearance.

I wish we would have had a dozen nukes to drop on them.

 

[4WD]

You must really like the Lexus "December to remember" ads ...

 

[John_Conrad]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: John_Conrad
the planning and execution of the japanese was based on deceptive diplomacy and lack of a formal declaration of war. that is all plain and simple. had they really wanted to prevent the usa from interfering in their plans of taking more of china, they would have destroyed all the infrastructure that allowed us to rebuild and reorganize.

there was nothing smart or clever about the japanese attack on pearl harbor.


It's the difference between tactics, and strategy. Tactically, Pearl Harbor was a huge success. Strategically, to the whole war effort, it was a massive mistake.


i see your point.

 

[Malo83]

Visited the USS ARIZONA a couple of times when our carrier would stop in Pearl, very sad and humbling experience to think that just under foot thousand men are still entombed and at station.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Goggle's leaders want us all to be ashamed to be Americans; that's probably why they don't commemorate Pearl Harbor.

My regular mechanic's father was a young soldier in 1944-45. He was slated to go on the Big Adventure, i.e., the planned invasion of Japan. Island by island, with not only the Japanese soldiers but the civilians fighting them every step of the way: most of the men expected they would never come home. He was never so glad in his life, he tells me, to hear about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs, and the Japanese surrender.

 

[02SE]

I had Family that watched the cowardly attack on Pearl Harbor from their house. Their house even sustained some damage from stray bullets/shrapnel.

They never forgot that day.

A salute to our service members that gave all on that day. And to those that have served since.