Death Valley Drive Using Thin Oil

[OilUzer]

Summer is approaching and we do one trip to Nevada with a loaded car and I change to a Euro A3/B4 40 grade (M1 or Catrol) and make sure tires, PSI, coolant and cooling system is in good shape ...

My car OM says 20 grade but I normally run 5/10W-30 with M1 EP being the only 10W I use and I sometimes even use Euro 30 locally in the summer months.

That was just some background info but here is the question or concern:
If I ever owned a car with 0W-8/16 spec, I would really be afraid of driving a loaded car uphill at the speed limit (high RPM) when it's ~120°F outside with the air conditioning running full blast (dog must stay very cool ) ... Wouldn't that be a valid concern?

For example some of the hybrids don't aid with the electric motor going uphill. Do they? Do they have engine oil cooler?

I mean is there adequate MOFT for a summer time Death Valley drive using 8 or 16 grade under these conditions?

 

[cptbarkey]

I do not litmus test my vehicles on its ability to drive in death valley. This topic has been hashed over a few times here and not really unique. Supertech 0w20 will work fine, assuming you arent driving a clapped out vehicle with rotten hoses.

 

[Chris142]

People confuse the fact that a car is not a human body. You are not comfortable when it's 120F in the shade. Your car doesn't mind it.

 

[mark pruett]

People confuse the fact that a car is not a human body. You are not comfortable when it's 120F in the shade. Your car doesn't mind it.

Exactly. We're dramatically more sensitive to temperature than machines are. For us, there's a pronounced difference between say... 90 and 100 degrees, but to an engine, they're both 80-100 degrees below operating temperature. What's 20 more degrees when you look at it that way?

It's when the cooling system fails or can't keep up that engines start having problems, not when ambient temp is 15-20 degrees higher than the normal high temp that the vehicle experiences.

 

[Zee09]

Most vehicles have larger oil sumps today as well.

 

[Patman]

People confuse the fact that a car is not a human body. You are not comfortable when it's 120F in the shade. Your car doesn't mind it.

But as others have pointed out, your oil temperature does go up in 120F weather compared to 20-40F weather. So it would be wise to go up a grade if you will be expecting extreme heat. I know that my Corvette sees about a 30 degree jump in oil temperature in 90 degree weather vs 30 degree weather. But I already have the extra protection from ESP 5w30 so I’m good. But if I was running a thinner 5w30 with only a 3.0 HTHS that might not be up to snuff at the higher oil temps from driving hard in the summer

 

[burbguy82]

OEMs claim 0w8/16 is good at all temps

They claim a lot. Not sure how much I believe though.

 

[Lockasiam]

They claim a lot. Not sure how much I believe though.

Fair enough, I don’t really like the grade arrow charts because sometimes they vary based on manufacturer and usually just show all oils being ok obviously with the differing cold point based on the W

 

[ATex7239]

The philosophical burden of proof is upon the person making the hypothetical claims, as opposed to shifting the burden of disproving said hypothesis to others. What proof is there that this hypothetical vehicle wouldn’t be just fine?

 

[edyvw]

Summer is approaching and we do one trip to Nevada with a loaded car and I change to a Euro A3/B4 40 grade (M1 or Catrol) and make sure tires, PSI, coolant and cooling system is in good shape ...

My car OM says 20 grade but I normally run 5/10W-30 with M1 EP being the only 10W I use and I sometimes even use Euro 30 locally in the summer months.

That was just some background info but here is the question or concern:
If I ever owned a car with 0W-8/16 spec, I would really be afraid of driving a loaded car uphill at the speed limit (high RPM) when it's ~120°F outside with the air conditioning running full blast (dog must stay very cool ) ... Wouldn't that be a valid concern?

For example some of the hybrids don't aid with the electric motor going uphill. Do they? Do they have engine oil cooler?

I mean is there adequate MOFT for a summer time Death Valley drive using 8 or 16 grade under these conditions?

I still did not catch, what vehicle?

 

[OilUzer]

I still did not catch, what vehicle?

It was one of these hybrid cars with dinky little engines like Toyota or something. We were thinking about maybe after I sell a car or 2 (I have a tendency to hoard our old cars and insurance prices are getting crazy), we try a hybrid, definitely not buying any EV. Something mainly for commuting and local. Not in a near future and waiting to see how the tariff games play out, etc.

My wife said it will be good for travelling also if it was bigger ...
and that made me think of summer trip to NV and Death Valley with 8 or 16 is not happening on my watch. Time for a manly Euro oil.

We definitely don't want a cute little MOFT provided by 8 or 16 viscosity grade suffer in the heat. off course this last debate was in my head and she was not involved in that part of the discussion.

 

[Hohn]

No. Extreme altitude is what you should worry, not place below sea level.
I drove Tiguan at 127f (showing on screen) 100-110mph on I8 for good period of time. Coolant needle did not move.
But it did go from 1/2 to 3/4 on Pikes Peak climbing at 35mph at 45f, but Pikes Peak is at 14,112ft.

Indeed!

I comment only to expand on *why* altitude is so much harder to manage. In a word: density. Convective cooling relies heavily on the mass flow of air across it. Hotter air is less dense, it is true. But high altitude is a LOT less dense.

Now, of course the delta T across the radiator also matters a great deal. But it’s quite easy for modest temperatures in altitude to be far more significant than super hot temperatures in the quite dense air at or below seal level in Death Valley.

 

[Hohn]

RPM was the biggest driver of higher oil temps in my last car with oil temp gauge. That was an NA engine with an oil cooler and thermostat, and finned sump.

the thermostat helped with keeping the oil at 80°C (minimum) but drive higher pms and the temps go up. Of course, the load kinda goes up aswell, this engine also had squirters aimed at the pistons, so some heat will have come from there. 5w-40 and 0w-40 used in that engine while I had it.

Higher rpm is only higher load if all else is the same. if the higher rpm is from a downshift, it’s less load rather than more.

 

[Jetronic]

Higher rpm is only higher load if all else is the same. if the higher rpm is from a downshift, it’s less load rather than more.

I would be driving faster....

 

[ka9mnx]

Higher rpm is only higher load if all else is the same. if the higher rpm is from a downshift, it’s less load rather than more.

Plus it spins the water pump and oil pump faster.

I once overheated an engine climbing a mountain in OD. I pulled over and let the engine cool down (letting the engine idle around 1,500 rpm with the heater blowing hot). After that, no more overheating without OD on.

 

[eljefino]

I'm thrilled that the hypothetical Toyota in question has an oil temp sensor as part of the engine management, even if you need a scan tool to read it. That means, to me, that Toyota has a point when the car will do something to protect itself, probably running the rad fans at max panic speed.

I did the Hoover Dam/ Death Valley slog in a rental Camry non-hybrid a couple years back, in July, with 109'F weather. Didn't pass any broken down cars. I bet you could break something going 4-wheeling, with the friction of pushing through dirt causing overheating, but I stayed on the pavement. Interesting weather, 10 MPH wind felt like it made it worse, like standing in front of a hair dryer I couldn't get away from.

 

[Sienna dude]

Did OP leave for Death Valley?

 

[mark pruett]

But as others have pointed out, your oil temperature does go up in 120F weather compared to 20-40F weather. So it would be wise to go up a grade if you will be expecting extreme heat. I know that my Corvette sees about a 30 degree jump in oil temperature in 90 degree weather vs 30 degree weather. But I already have the extra protection from ESP 5w30 so I’m good. But if I was running a thinner 5w30 with only a 3.0 HTHS that might not be up to snuff at the higher oil temps from driving hard in the summer

How much though? And is that enough to thin out the oil such that it's not where it needs to be?

Personally I think that a couple of decades of 0w-20 use has conclusively proven that it works just fine in pretty much every situation.

 

[Hootbro]

I am sure engine oil durability testing accounts for climates besides what is in Southern California in the month of March.

 

[Panda87]

LoL , anarchy anarchy . First to get paid first to get xxxx . Ricky Bobby.

If you ain’t first, you’re last! Shake and bake baby!

 

[CKN]

My test was driving up to Leadville, Colorado pulling a 5,000 pound travel trailer in 90 degree heat running 0W/20 in my 2023 Silverado 1500.
Rig ran perfect.