Danger even in 'safe' small cars
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IMO the most dangerous crash is not the frontal crash, but the side impact crash due to the lack of crumble zone. No matter what kind of car you are in, you will be dead if you hit a drunk driver swaying into your lane and hit you head on without slowing down first.
Fortunately, undivided highway is not that common where I live. I'm more worried about a drunk driver running a red light and T bone me.
Fortunately, undivided highway is not that common where I live. I'm more worried about a drunk driver running a red light and T bone me.
My mom drives a Suzuki Swift and was recently half-T-boned by an SUV. She was stopped, he was going maybe 30 mph. Came in at about a 45 degree angle from the front. I didn't see the Swift myself, but apparently it was fairly crumpled yet still driveable, though the cop on the scene recommended towing it away to be safe. Not a scratch on mom.
Originally Posted By: Vilan
My mom drives a Suzuki Swift and was recently half-T-boned by an SUV. She was stopped, he was going maybe 30 mph. Came in at about a 45 degree angle from the front. I didn't see the Swift myself, but apparently it was fairly crumpled yet still driveable, though the cop on the scene recommended towing it away to be safe. Not a scratch on mom.
Which side did the SUV hit the Swift? Passenger side?
If it was crumpled but driveable, it must have been a < 10mph impact. There's absolutely no way a car, especially one that size, could be driveable after being Tboned by an SUV at 30mph. Even if it was hit by a Smart at 30mph, it would be undriveable.
My mom drives a Suzuki Swift and was recently half-T-boned by an SUV. She was stopped, he was going maybe 30 mph. Came in at about a 45 degree angle from the front. I didn't see the Swift myself, but apparently it was fairly crumpled yet still driveable, though the cop on the scene recommended towing it away to be safe. Not a scratch on mom.
Which side did the SUV hit the Swift? Passenger side?
If it was crumpled but driveable, it must have been a < 10mph impact. There's absolutely no way a car, especially one that size, could be driveable after being Tboned by an SUV at 30mph. Even if it was hit by a Smart at 30mph, it would be undriveable.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
You don't have a family of four, do you?
Not yet, but I'm going to try not to be one of those families that needs to cart 30 cubic feet of stuff to go to the grandparents for the day...
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
If you bought a fullsize diesel truck, you would get about the same mileage as your Tracker. A diesel truck would also get better mileage than your four banger Tracker while towing twice the load.
I average around 27 mpg commuting and in the low 20's towing depending on the loads wind resistence. I don't think there are any 4x4 diesel trucks getting anywhere near that, and the total cost of ownership of my tracker bought new in 2003 is probably 1/3 of a diesel truck, diesels 4x4's were $35-40k+ in Canada back then. I was out the door with the tracker at $17k.
Like I said before, if I need to move over 2000lbs of stuff at once then I can borrow a truck for a day, but I find its much harder borrowing a relatively efficient commuter for the other 220 days a year I go to work...
Ian
You don't have a family of four, do you?
Not yet, but I'm going to try not to be one of those families that needs to cart 30 cubic feet of stuff to go to the grandparents for the day...
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
If you bought a fullsize diesel truck, you would get about the same mileage as your Tracker. A diesel truck would also get better mileage than your four banger Tracker while towing twice the load.
I average around 27 mpg commuting and in the low 20's towing depending on the loads wind resistence. I don't think there are any 4x4 diesel trucks getting anywhere near that, and the total cost of ownership of my tracker bought new in 2003 is probably 1/3 of a diesel truck, diesels 4x4's were $35-40k+ in Canada back then. I was out the door with the tracker at $17k.
Like I said before, if I need to move over 2000lbs of stuff at once then I can borrow a truck for a day, but I find its much harder borrowing a relatively efficient commuter for the other 220 days a year I go to work...
Ian
A family of 4 can fit perfectly fine in a 4 door corolla or civic (assuming you are not super sized, big bone, or have a Viking warrior's gene in your family).
What if you have to go on a long trip? Rent a minivan, or buy a minivan.
What if you have to go on a long trip? Rent a minivan, or buy a minivan.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I average around 27 mpg commuting and in the low 20's towing depending on the loads wind resistence. I don't think there are any 4x4 diesel trucks getting anywhere near that, and the total cost of ownership of my tracker bought new in 2003 is probably 1/3 of a diesel truck, diesels 4x4's were $35-40k+ in Canada back then. I was out the door with the tracker at $17k.
Like I said before, if I need to move over 2000lbs of stuff at once then I can borrow a truck for a day, but I find its much harder borrowing a relatively efficient commuter for the other 220 days a year I go to work...
I think my Golf TDI is a better commuter car -- about 48 on long highway trips and 40 in mixed driving.
Better for towing -- 155 ft/lb when stock, now around 250-260 with bigger injection nozzles and a remapped ECU; 2000 pounds is a snap. Averaged 42 mpg California to Iowa towing a trailer with GVW over 2000 pounds. Only had to downshift on the steepest grades.
Better for safety, too. You don't have to sacrifice safety for fuel economy, or vice-versa.
I average around 27 mpg commuting and in the low 20's towing depending on the loads wind resistence. I don't think there are any 4x4 diesel trucks getting anywhere near that, and the total cost of ownership of my tracker bought new in 2003 is probably 1/3 of a diesel truck, diesels 4x4's were $35-40k+ in Canada back then. I was out the door with the tracker at $17k.
Like I said before, if I need to move over 2000lbs of stuff at once then I can borrow a truck for a day, but I find its much harder borrowing a relatively efficient commuter for the other 220 days a year I go to work...
I think my Golf TDI is a better commuter car -- about 48 on long highway trips and 40 in mixed driving.
Better for towing -- 155 ft/lb when stock, now around 250-260 with bigger injection nozzles and a remapped ECU; 2000 pounds is a snap. Averaged 42 mpg California to Iowa towing a trailer with GVW over 2000 pounds. Only had to downshift on the steepest grades.
Better for safety, too. You don't have to sacrifice safety for fuel economy, or vice-versa.
Renting a van over the weekend is fairly cheap a couple times a year compared to owning one.
For longer trips I'm toying with the idea of getting a lightweight version of a trailer like this.
Towing with this much air resistance probably should only be done with a manual transmission in a compact car, but their hp is climbing every generation too. It's not real popular in N.A. but if outfitted with brakes a trailer like that wouldn't be that much of an increased risk.
Obviously you shouldn't go WAY over the GVWR of a car but if you look at the load ratings of your car in countries like Australia you can see what is the realistic safe load is given you don't drive like your IQ is 50...
Tornado,
I wish I could have the TDI engine in the tracker... even the old 90hp one would be fine. We need at least one vehicle with 4wd though, and I am toying with getting a plow for my 1/4 mile driveway for the tracker, so the low range transfer case and ladder frame are a must for that too. The trackers 2.0L is rated for 130ftlb's at 3000 rpm which is ok given its lightweight and gearing but there is always a lower gear if needed. 3rd is good for 55mph, but I haven't needed to do that so far.
Ian
For longer trips I'm toying with the idea of getting a lightweight version of a trailer like this.
Towing with this much air resistance probably should only be done with a manual transmission in a compact car, but their hp is climbing every generation too. It's not real popular in N.A. but if outfitted with brakes a trailer like that wouldn't be that much of an increased risk.
Obviously you shouldn't go WAY over the GVWR of a car but if you look at the load ratings of your car in countries like Australia you can see what is the realistic safe load is given you don't drive like your IQ is 50...
Tornado,
I wish I could have the TDI engine in the tracker... even the old 90hp one would be fine. We need at least one vehicle with 4wd though, and I am toying with getting a plow for my 1/4 mile driveway for the tracker, so the low range transfer case and ladder frame are a must for that too. The trackers 2.0L is rated for 130ftlb's at 3000 rpm which is ok given its lightweight and gearing but there is always a lower gear if needed. 3rd is good for 55mph, but I haven't needed to do that so far.
Ian
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
A family of 4 can fit perfectly fine in a 4 door corolla or civic (assuming you are not super sized, big bone, or have a Viking warrior's gene in your family).
What if you have to go on a long trip? Rent a minivan, or buy a minivan.
My family of four has made three trips to date from Ohio to Mississippi in our Corolla. The tightest fit is the luggage in the trunk but it has not been all that tough. My concession to safety was to get the optional side airbags and antilock brakes and to drive carefully.
We are set to go again this year with an additional leg from Memphis area to New Orleans thrown in. I admit that I am considering renting a large sedan (Taurus sounds ideal) for this trip. This would be a luxury and not a need.
For me, the most compelling argument for needing a large truck or SUV would be an economic one. More money is saved in rental or delivery fees or made by a business than is expended paying higher payments, maintenance, and fuel costs.
As far as crash safety goes I think the best data for comparison would be the recorded fatality and accident rates for the various classes of cars. I don't doubt that a larger car is safer in an accident but I wonder if smaller cars contribute at all to more defensive driving practices and better accident avoidance resulting in lower accident rates to partially offset the increased accident severity.
A family of 4 can fit perfectly fine in a 4 door corolla or civic (assuming you are not super sized, big bone, or have a Viking warrior's gene in your family).
What if you have to go on a long trip? Rent a minivan, or buy a minivan.
My family of four has made three trips to date from Ohio to Mississippi in our Corolla. The tightest fit is the luggage in the trunk but it has not been all that tough. My concession to safety was to get the optional side airbags and antilock brakes and to drive carefully.
We are set to go again this year with an additional leg from Memphis area to New Orleans thrown in. I admit that I am considering renting a large sedan (Taurus sounds ideal) for this trip. This would be a luxury and not a need.
For me, the most compelling argument for needing a large truck or SUV would be an economic one. More money is saved in rental or delivery fees or made by a business than is expended paying higher payments, maintenance, and fuel costs.
As far as crash safety goes I think the best data for comparison would be the recorded fatality and accident rates for the various classes of cars. I don't doubt that a larger car is safer in an accident but I wonder if smaller cars contribute at all to more defensive driving practices and better accident avoidance resulting in lower accident rates to partially offset the increased accident severity.
Saab says the 2003+ 93 can tow 3500lbs with trailer brakes. That's the 2.0L turbocharged 93. I believe the 2.8L turbocharged V6 has the same tow rating.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Tornado,
I wish I could have the TDI engine in the tracker... even the old 90hp one would be fine. We need at least one vehicle with 4wd though, and I am toying with getting a plow for my 1/4 mile driveway for the tracker, so the low range transfer case and ladder frame are a must for that too. The trackers 2.0L is rated for 130ftlb's at 3000 rpm which is ok given its lightweight and gearing but there is always a lower gear if needed. 3rd is good for 55mph, but I haven't needed to do that so far.
Ian
There are shops that do TDI conversions in the Samurai and Tracker. Visit the TDI Club website and check out the Conversions forum.
Tornado,
I wish I could have the TDI engine in the tracker... even the old 90hp one would be fine. We need at least one vehicle with 4wd though, and I am toying with getting a plow for my 1/4 mile driveway for the tracker, so the low range transfer case and ladder frame are a must for that too. The trackers 2.0L is rated for 130ftlb's at 3000 rpm which is ok given its lightweight and gearing but there is always a lower gear if needed. 3rd is good for 55mph, but I haven't needed to do that so far.
Ian
There are shops that do TDI conversions in the Samurai and Tracker. Visit the TDI Club website and check out the Conversions forum.
Thanks for the info, I'll have to do some thorough research. The only real hang up I could see is that my gearing has the engine running at around 2900 rpm at 60mph. What rpm does your car run in top gear at 60?
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Thanks for the info, I'll have to do some thorough research. The only real hang up I could see is that my gearing has the engine running at around 2900 rpm at 60mph. What rpm does your car run in top gear at 60?
My 2005 Jetta TDI turns 2500 rpm at 70 mph, so 2140 at 60 mph. A TDI would run for ever at 2900 rpm, but you would be wasting some fuel.
Thanks for the info, I'll have to do some thorough research. The only real hang up I could see is that my gearing has the engine running at around 2900 rpm at 60mph. What rpm does your car run in top gear at 60?
My 2005 Jetta TDI turns 2500 rpm at 70 mph, so 2140 at 60 mph. A TDI would run for ever at 2900 rpm, but you would be wasting some fuel.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Thanks for the info, I'll have to do some thorough research. The only real hang up I could see is that my gearing has the engine running at around 2900 rpm at 60mph. What rpm does your car run in top gear at 60?
I don't know how the conversion process addresses the gear ratio problem. Ideally the engine would be turning about 2000 rpm at 60 mph.
I've used up about all the knowledge I have about such conversions, I just know they've been done and I think the Samurai/Tracker would be a great candidate for a diesel conversion.
Thanks for the info, I'll have to do some thorough research. The only real hang up I could see is that my gearing has the engine running at around 2900 rpm at 60mph. What rpm does your car run in top gear at 60?
I don't know how the conversion process addresses the gear ratio problem. Ideally the engine would be turning about 2000 rpm at 60 mph.
I've used up about all the knowledge I have about such conversions, I just know they've been done and I think the Samurai/Tracker would be a great candidate for a diesel conversion.
From the brief amount I've read so far, most guys doing this are serious off roaders and not to worried about hwy mileage, but a few have posted their mileage in the mid 30's and up even with the high revs. Most have bigger tires too which helps bring the revs down but takes more hp to turn. There are diesel vitaras in other markets too, they use a peugeot engine, I'll find out what gearing they use. There are a few different axle ratios available too from the V6 models and the XL7 which might be significantly lower.
For now its all hypothetical anyways, I can't see myself swapping my healthy engine out in the next few years. I should really build a garage first.
For now its all hypothetical anyways, I can't see myself swapping my healthy engine out in the next few years. I should really build a garage first.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
A family of 4 can fit perfectly fine in a 4 door corolla or civic (assuming you are not super sized, big bone, or have a Viking warrior's gene in your family).
What if you have to go on a long trip? Rent a minivan, or buy a minivan.
can (4) 300 lb people fit?
A family of 4 can fit perfectly fine in a 4 door corolla or civic (assuming you are not super sized, big bone, or have a Viking warrior's gene in your family).
What if you have to go on a long trip? Rent a minivan, or buy a minivan.
can (4) 300 lb people fit?
anyway.....
I know the subject is crash tests, and that's fine.
The mpg gain in those small cars does not offset the cramped feeling. The thing for me is that my mid-size gets say 30 mpg. A smart car gets what, 40? Do the math over however many HOURS you actually have to spend in the thing. Call me a fat greedy selfish pig, but a few cents and hour to be more comfortable and safe, if worth it. Maybe we can crunch the number, but I do the 2 hour each way drive every week or so.If I am in a small car, I feel beat-up and am not really able to do my task on arrival, or after departute.
It is worth it.
Darn it, here's some math.
100 mile trip in my Accord w/ leather, heated seats, killer stereo = 3.33 gallons or $6.67
The same trip in a Smart-Yaroid vehicle would cost me $5
Over the course of a day-long venture to the city, I'd save $3.34
Not bad, but not worth it at $2/gallon.
$.83c an hour more to operate my fast-comfort-pimp mobile.
I can live with that. (pun intended since the subject is safety)
I know the subject is crash tests, and that's fine.
The mpg gain in those small cars does not offset the cramped feeling. The thing for me is that my mid-size gets say 30 mpg. A smart car gets what, 40? Do the math over however many HOURS you actually have to spend in the thing. Call me a fat greedy selfish pig, but a few cents and hour to be more comfortable and safe, if worth it. Maybe we can crunch the number, but I do the 2 hour each way drive every week or so.If I am in a small car, I feel beat-up and am not really able to do my task on arrival, or after departute.
It is worth it.
Darn it, here's some math.
100 mile trip in my Accord w/ leather, heated seats, killer stereo = 3.33 gallons or $6.67
The same trip in a Smart-Yaroid vehicle would cost me $5
Over the course of a day-long venture to the city, I'd save $3.34
Not bad, but not worth it at $2/gallon.
$.83c an hour more to operate my fast-comfort-pimp mobile.
I can live with that. (pun intended since the subject is safety)
Lets take 25k miles per year.. (I drive more per year)
$3 a gallon average (we got to $4.20 last summer)
30 mpg 834 gallons = $2502
40 mph 625 gallons = $1875
Difference? $627 or 8360 miles worth of gas.
Comfort? I'm close to 6ft 6 and over 300 lbs.
I'm comfortable. Was also in our Jetta which was smaller.
And thankfully I get over 40mpg and sadly gas was over $3 a gallon.
And I think it will be over $3 easy (and close to $4 if not over in a few months)
Thankfully we are not driving 13 mpg vehicles.
$3 a gallon average (we got to $4.20 last summer)
30 mpg 834 gallons = $2502
40 mph 625 gallons = $1875
Difference? $627 or 8360 miles worth of gas.
Comfort? I'm close to 6ft 6 and over 300 lbs.
I'm comfortable. Was also in our Jetta which was smaller.
And thankfully I get over 40mpg and sadly gas was over $3 a gallon.
And I think it will be over $3 easy (and close to $4 if not over in a few months)
Thankfully we are not driving 13 mpg vehicles.
If you are trolling around at 40 miles an hour, you save exactly $1/hour.
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