Damage by running 30-60 seconds on low pressure?

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
There was still residual oil though on the engine parts; probably more so given the engine was last shut off not more then probably 10 minutes prior to the no oil pressure event.

A cold engine that's been sitting for several days - the oil has had that long to drain and drip off parts.

Just a thought.

I'd wager a bet that some of the extreme cold starts I've witnessed with my car did way more damage then idling for 60 seconds with no oil pressure (on an engine that's going to have a lot of oil still on the parts, and one that is warm).


Do you realize you're comparing a minute with no oil pressure or flow to a single cold start? The coldest cold start is not going to starve the engine for oil for more than a second or three at most.

I've torn engines down that sat for a year without being started and they still had oil on the cylinders and in the bearings.

This thing was run for an entire minute! Any oil that was in the bearings and on the cylinders from shutdown was gone after a few seconds after the pressure failed to arrive!

Do you realize how the oiling system works? The method in which the cylinders are splashed?


Do you realize that you're a condescending [censored] hole?

Yes, I know how the oiling system in an engine works Mr. Diesel Jeans.


I've seen plenty of cold starts at 20 below or colder where it took a wee bit longer then a second or 3 for oil pressure to register.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
There was still residual oil though on the engine parts; probably more so given the engine was last shut off not more then probably 10 minutes prior to the no oil pressure event.

A cold engine that's been sitting for several days - the oil has had that long to drain and drip off parts.

Just a thought.

I'd wager a bet that some of the extreme cold starts I've witnessed with my car did way more damage then idling for 60 seconds with no oil pressure (on an engine that's going to have a lot of oil still on the parts, and one that is warm).


Do you realize you're comparing a minute with no oil pressure or flow to a single cold start? The coldest cold start is not going to starve the engine for oil for more than a second or three at most.

I've torn engines down that sat for a year without being started and they still had oil on the cylinders and in the bearings.

This thing was run for an entire minute! Any oil that was in the bearings and on the cylinders from shutdown was gone after a few seconds after the pressure failed to arrive!

Do you realize how the oiling system works? The method in which the cylinders are splashed?


Do you realize that you're a condescending [censored] hole?

Yes, I know how the oiling system in an engine works Mr. Diesel Jeans.

[censored] almighty. THIS is why BITOG sucks now. It's full of total know it all asses like BuickGN.

I've seen plenty of cold starts at 20 below or colder where it took a wee bit longer then a second or 3 for oil pressure to register.






You're right, BITOG is full of dumb asses giving terrible advice that don't understand basic mechanical workings like an engine.

You state things as fact when they're just an opinion. You don't know that his engine is ok. You try and say there's oil left on the cylinders and bearings when the engine had made 800 revolutions with no pressure or flow. You compare running for a WHOLE MINUTE with no pressure and flow to a cold start.

And really, making fun of the jeans I wear? You'd love to know I work on the cars in my $250 jeans too.

 

[Drew99GT]

You yourself just said that there's oil left on the parts after sitting for YEARS (let alone 10 minutes of not running), which kind of makes my point. There was likely enough left over oil on all the parts, to include the cylinder walls and pistons, that no critical damage was done.

You don't know that his engine ISN'T OK.

You as well state A LOT of things as facts, when they're certainly nothing but opinion or simply your experience with one engine - such as your opinion that 20 weight oils will kill an engine in short order.

The guy was probably looking for a pat on the back, and there's plenty of evidence to show that this sort of thing happens a lot, and it usually doesn't lead to any long term consequences.

So I say don't worry about it. There's nothing else he can do.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
You yourself just said that there's oil left on the parts after sitting for YEARS (let alone 10 minutes of not running), which kind of makes my point. There was likely enough left over oil on all the parts, to include the cylinder walls and pistons, that no critical damage was done.


Those pistons went up and down 1,600 times in a minute. The crank turned 800 times in a minute. Whatever was left there was gone pretty quickly.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

You don't know that his engine ISN'T OK.


No, I don't. It will likely live a long and healthy life. On the flip side, there's no denying a good bit of extra wear occured.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

You as well state A LOT of things as facts, when they're certainly nothing but opinion or simply your experience with one engine - such as your opinion that 20 weight oils will kill an engine in short order.


I state opinions, of course. But I try my best to label them as opinions or theories and not state them as facts.

Here you go again with the lies. I have never stated a 20wt will kill a normal engine in short order. My GN would likely last minutes with it but that's beside the point. All I have ever said is that I don't like the one size fits all mentality of the 20wts. I don't believe they provide the best protection in all climates for all engines. Not once have I said they would destroy an engine quickly.

My experience with one engine, I'm assuming you're referring to used oil analysis. I've stated my experience exactly as it happened so others can take it into consideration. My experience with 4 used oil analysis on one failing engine is real world experience and is fact based. Not sure where you're going with that one. People are free to ignore it or analyze it and again, I've never hidden the fact or made it sound like there have been more than 2 engines involved in the UOA problems.

IMO, I have more to offer than many people here with real world experience and teardowns, not theories or analyzing a 2ppm difference in used oil analysis.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

The guy was probably looking for a pat on the back, and there's plenty of evidence to show that this sort of thing happens a lot, and it usually doesn't lead to any long term consequences.

So I say don't worry about it. There's nothing else he can do.


My thoughts too. It's unfortunate that several thousand miles or more worth of wear probably occured but in the grand scheme of things he'll never be able to prove it after 100,000+ miles of use.

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

I'm gonna try to start an engine that sat for the last 20 years.
I'll let you guys know what happens.
I'm gonna fill it with super tech.

 

[Epic_]

You going to do anything special before starting?

 

[XCELERATIONRULES]

Just change out the old oil,and pray.
I will make a video of the sequence.
By the way,its a 1972 pontiac 455,last plated in 1989.

 

[Merv]

Thanks to all the folks who chimed in with their thoughts and opinions.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that the quick lube place took an oil sample at the time of the incident and sent it for wear metal analysis. That will give us a baseline for comparison. They will take another sample when my next oil change and send it for analysis. Hopefully the results will be normal. If not, the lube shop has committed to making things right.

The one thing that puzzles me is that the lube technician claims that there was only a slight leak around the oil filter. I checked under the vehicle and did not see any evidence of oil having "sprayed" out - which would seem to support his claim. But would just a slight leak really cause enough pressure drop to sound the low pressure alarm? I can't help but wonder if I am getting the full story from them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Just change out the old oil,and pray.
I will make a video of the sequence.
By the way,its a 1972 pontiac 455,last plated in 1989.


You shouldn't have a problem, I've started boat engines that have sat that long. The key is to pre-lube them well and turn them over by hand for a bit to "free things up" before actually getting it going under power.

 

[element_42]

Good thing you got that incident on your workorder. I'm sure the event was recorded into the truck's ECU "black box" for the dealer to find

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Merv
Thanks to all the folks who chimed in with their thoughts and opinions.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that the quick lube place took an oil sample at the time of the incident and sent it for wear metal analysis. That will give us a baseline for comparison. They will take another sample when my next oil change and send it for analysis. Hopefully the results will be normal. If not, the lube shop has committed to making things right.

The one thing that puzzles me is that the lube technician claims that there was only a slight leak around the oil filter. I checked under the vehicle and did not see any evidence of oil having "sprayed" out - which would seem to support his claim. But would just a slight leak really cause enough pressure drop to sound the low pressure alarm? I can't help but wonder if I am getting the full story from them.


It sounds like they're really trying to make it right.

That's weird there wasn't a mess everywhere. I've blown out an O-ring and oil was everywhere.

 

[bluestream]

I would say zero damage to worry about. Many cash for clunkers trade-ins run 15 min with no oil at full throttle berore they seize. Local BMW dealer had a car stolen from the shop with no oil, theif drove it 5 miles before is seized and was left at side of road

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I would say zero damage to worry about. Many cash for clunkers trade-ins run 15 min with no oil at full throttle berore they seize. Local BMW dealer had a car stolen from the shop with no oil, theif drove it 5 miles before is seized and was left at side of road


This line of reasoning doesn't make sense. The engine doesn't have 0 wear and all of a sudden freeze up.

It's beside the point but I've watched many cash for clunkers videos and most of them go 3-5 minutes at no load and high rpm.

 

[bluestream]

Ok, almost zero.

It would have some wear even with full oil, as every revolution causes some wear

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
It's beside the point but I've watched many cash for clunkers videos and most of them go 3-5 minutes at no load and high rpm.

But they not only got no oil, they have 2 quarts of a water, sand, and silicate slurry in there designed to seize the engine.

 

[element_42]

oh my lord, i've seen these video and it really drives the point home: WHAT A GOD FORSAKEN WASTE!!

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
It's beside the point but I've watched many cash for clunkers videos and most of them go 3-5 minutes at no load and high rpm.

But they not only got no oil, they have 2 quarts of a water, sand, and silicate slurry in there designed to seize the engine.


Not all of them. And again, it's beside the point. He was trying to make it look like as long as it's not frozen up, there's no damage. This is not the case.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: element_42
oh my lord, i've seen these video and it really drives the point home: WHAT A GOD FORSAKEN WASTE!!

Yup!

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
He was trying to make it look like as long as it's not frozen up, there's no damage. This is not the case.

I reckon there has to be some accelerated wear there yeh. I wouldn't worry too much if the clatter didn't start to the end.
Those cars I saw without the oil but no slurry ran quite a long time without oil.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
He was trying to make it look like as long as it's not frozen up, there's no damage. This is not the case.

I reckon there has to be some accelerated wear there yeh. I wouldn't worry too much if the clatter didn't start to the end.
Those cars I saw without the oil but no slurry ran quite a long time without oil.
Personally, I'd worry more if GM even properly fit the pistons to the cylinders at the factory than about this event.


Frustrating does not begin to describe this.

Do you understand how much wear there has to be to hear a permanent clatter? I believe the OP mentioned clatter that went away when pressure was restored in the first post anyway.

Piston slap has no effect on wear or reliability. Nothing to do with this thread.

Again, it does not have to make noise or freeze up for there to be lots of wear. I've torn these things down after such an incident and trust me, there can be plenty of damage without noise or freezing up.

It's not likely this guy has anything to worry about but it's the point that people are basically trying to say everything is great since it didn't freeze up.