Custom trailer brainstorming - hauling cars/trucks

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Needing to pick a few brains here...

Super short version - I want to build a custom trailer which is capable of periodically hauling cars and trucks (not it's primary use at all, few times per year max) but due to needing to be stored in a small garage space area has to be smaller than normal. Renting will not normally be an economic or perhaps even possible option with many short notice weekend opportunities.

An 8.5 foot wide 24 foot long car only hauler is just too big. Ideal width is probably from 5.5 to 6.5 feet wide - length somewhere from 16 to 21 feet long. Yet it WILL have to haul vehicles up to 22 feet long (1976 Cadilacc Fleetwood project once found already planned) both the biggest/heaviest cars as well as up to 1 ton crew cab (possibly duallie) pickups.

So my thinking is if I use special ramps or even side jacks to get the car/truck up and over the wheels in the middle only to lower it back down again to get the center of gravity as low as possible. Literally laying car frame on trailer frame (with some rubber blocks between maybe) not quite as low as a car hauler but i'm hoping pretty low. Just high enough so that the door sills of the car being over the trailer wheel points are practically touching afterwards.

For some vehicles there will be overhang - i'm hoping this is not an inherent problem as the trailer will basically be a flatbed. Having at worst an extra long toungue in front to give some extra space and possibly even having the rear of the trailer at least 'visually extend' (not really a weight supporting position) so that the trailer lights, license plate and such are still behind the car regardless of length.

What i'm not sure is whether the couple inches higher CoG makes a big deal, or whether the overhang would be unsafe in some way. What i'm trying to avoid is the equivalent of a "flatbed over the top of the wheels driving onto that" which would be even higher yet.

I'm not sure if it's needed or not but having one (or even both) trailer axles adjustable fore/aft for position to help better distribute the load is okay as well. Something I may want to option for other non-car loads.


I am aware this creates potentially alot of inconvenience to jack things up and place carefully instead of just driving on and driving off. But that doesn't bother me if it will be done very infrequently and for long range hauling - i'm only concerned about the safety hazards of such a trailer and hauling method. Can someone with better experience than me enlighten me on how doable it is?
 
A low trailer means that the doors will be blocked by the trailer wheel fenders. You'll be getting out through a window.

If that doesn't give you pause, how will you close the window after you get out? Not all cars have keyless entry with window open/close.
 
If I had ramps I was planning on having the vehicle in neutral and using a winch/wouldn't trust driving it up and most vehicles would be damaged/wrecked/nonworking.

Or maybe using jacks (or combination jacks and ramps) for lowering the car over the trailer once it's up the ramps. Like winch it up over (jacked up) ramp section, then lower the jacks at the same time so it squats down over the trailer.



Of course this is assuming the trailer fenders are outside the width of the car which I sort of established would probably not be the case/directly over top.
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Why not just get a car dolly? Drop the driveshaft for RWD tanks like that fleetwood.

In my state, and in most I believe, you don't need a tag for a car dolly, though you do on the car you're towing. But I can get a 10-day transit plate for $12.

This will be significantly less weight to haul and somewhat more maneuverable, as dollies have that center turntable pivot.
 
Tow bar and free wheeling hubs, or dolly and free wheeling hubs. If you are towing the same brand of car the hubs work good, use a set of front spindles and fab a plate to bolt to rear end. Used tow dollies are available for a reasonable cost,if you wanted to try it. You do need a strong tow vehicle and would want brakes on the dolly. Towed a drag car to the track over 100 mi. with this setup and no issues , just like a trailer behind you.
 
I looked at getting transit plates while out of state, and it seemed too much of a hassle. Dunno if out of state cops care though, if you're towing a car and not driving badly, then I'd think if you registered the dolly you'd be in the clear. Which IMO is your best bet.

Otherwise, I'd make some friends and see if you can either borrow their trailer, or store your trailer at their place.

Lastly, when I looked UHaul was like $45/day for a dolly and $55/day for a flatbed. I presume unlimited miles, but in order to get that price you need to drop off where you picked up. Otherwise one-way was kinda outrageous.

How far away from home are you shopping?
 
Originally Posted By: columnshift
Yet it WILL have to haul vehicles up to 22 feet long (1976 Cadilacc Fleetwood project once found already planned) both the biggest/heaviest cars as well as up to 1 ton crew cab (possibly duallie) pickups.


Few things...

There are reasons trained engineers design these trailers in accordance with established industry NATM guidelines; such a narrow axle track as what you describe lacks the necessary lateral stability at these weights. Two, 7k axles would be appropriate here, and I don't believe they're manufactured at anything under 86".

The Fleetwood Seventy-Five is 21', but wheelbase checks-in at under 13'. The latter is what matters. Dualie is a little longer, but still under 15'.

A 14k equipment trailer would be the best bet.
 
fabricating such a trailer that becomes cumbersome to use, is a lot of time & $ for something that offers few performance gains. you'll hate using it, though I can appreciate the thinking going into it.

Practically, stay with what's tried and true. Tried and true also has resale value, which a rubber-block-requiring fit-to-size trailer does not.

My $0.02
 
Originally Posted By: supton
then I'd think if you registered the dolly you'd be in the clear. Which IMO is your best bet.


The stickler as I understand it though is every axle touching the ground has to have a registration fee paid on it. So a junk car on a dolly needs permission for both its axles to be on the road, and the dolly is "exempt" as it just "helps the registered (front) axle to be towed." You'd have to register the dolly as a 2-axle trailer, if you even could.

If you notice dealers and tow trucks "try to" throw a dealer plate on a sling-towed car that's dragging its rear axle. This seems mostly unenforced though.

The most legal way to tow project cars home is on a dual-axle trailer, but you'd need at least a 3/4 ton truck to haul that.
 
Nuh-uh--if my 1/2ton truck can tow the space shuttle, then it certainly can tow a double-axle trailer.

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Maybe have a look at pontoon boat trailers? I see lots of them with the wheels between the pontoons. Looks kind of tippy but I guess the CoG is still pretty reasonable?
Anyways I see lots of them also use smaller tires. Maybe a deck over with 3-4 axles of smaller tires could be made? Might be a maintenance nightmare though. How many axles would have to be braked etc...
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Nuh-uh--if my 1/2ton truck can tow the space shuttle, then it certainly can tow a double-axle trailer.

whistle.gif



Hah I loved this gimmick. I would also love to see a 2005 Kia Spectra chained to an aircraft carrier on wheels and watch it move.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Maybe have a look at pontoon boat trailers? I see lots of them with the wheels between the pontoons. Looks kind of tippy but I guess the CoG is still pretty reasonable?
Anyways I see lots of them also use smaller tires. Maybe a deck over with 3-4 axles of smaller tires could be made? Might be a maintenance nightmare though. How many axles would have to be braked etc...


The trailer appears narrow because the pontoon has a 8.5' deck width. Even then, they're very lightweight, so it doesn't take an overly strong trailer and big tires/axles to get it down the road.

Hauling old Cadillac land yachts and big pickups is an entirely different thing altogether.
 
Yeah, hauling 6k+ vehicle on a trailer, trailer must be what, 2k by itself? Yeah, 1/2 tons are rated for it... whole 'nuther argument though. But a mickey-mouse trailer I wouldn't want to use.
 
IMO, a good car trailer would be tandem axle, axles set back a bit (and slightly spread), but with a long tongue (5 - 6 feet from ball to front of load deck). That'll keep the tongue weight reasonable, but make it very stable and not need a massive truck to tow it well.

The longer tongue moves more weight onto the trailer axles without compromising stability (which moving the axles forward would). Having the axles back further means less weight hanging behind the trailer axles, which reduces swaying forces.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Maybe have a look at pontoon boat trailers? I see lots of them with the wheels between the pontoons. Looks kind of tippy but I guess the CoG is still pretty reasonable?
Anyways I see lots of them also use smaller tires. Maybe a deck over with 3-4 axles of smaller tires could be made? Might be a maintenance nightmare though. How many axles would have to be braked etc...


The trailer appears narrow because the pontoon has a 8.5' deck width. Even then, they're very lightweight, so it doesn't take an overly strong trailer and big tires/axles to get it down the road.

Hauling old Cadillac land yachts and big pickups is an entirely different thing altogether.

BX325TT-12.jpg

Says up to 5500lbs, but I can't imagine driving around with a car on one either...
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Says up to 5500lbs, but I can't imagine driving around with a car on one either...


That's 5500lbs. total weight. The trailer itself weighs 1350lbs, which allows for 4150lbs. load.

Not nearly enough for what's needed here.

Take a look at big tritoons...

http://www.suntrackerboats.com/boat/specs.cfm?boat=3868

Approx. weight: 3095 Lbs.
Approx. package weight (boat, trailer, engine): 5314 Lbs.
 
For the vehicle to sit over the wheels of the trailer means the vehicle is going to sit up higher compared to a traditional car hauler trailer which doesn't sound like the most optimal way to haul a vehicle unless you are using one of the heavier duty goose neck type equipment trailers that have the deck over the wheels.

I have a traditional 18' car hauler trailer that I also use to haul all kinds of other things. I made wooden sides for it that can be removed when I haul a car.

What other types of things do you want to haul on this trailer?

Here is mine.



Wayne
 
I had mine custom built with hand made heavy duty fenders that are strong enough to drive over. I also had an 7 or 8,000 lb drop leg jack installed in case I wanted to leave a vehicle on the trailer without it being hooked up to the truck. I don't trust the 2,000 lb jacks for that. I think my trailer is 82" between the fenders.
 
Answering EVERYONE.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Why not just get a car dolly?


Some of the cars will be wrecks or without plates/tabs/tires to be stripped for a couple of vehicle buildup projects.

Besides this isn't a "car trailer", this is a "trailer thats occasionally used for cars" - I need it anyways, if I can also get car-hauling use out of it that adds a significant and important ability while taking zero extra space or parking money. If it literally hauls every car/truck I can ever think of doing a project over instead of just some it adds even more value. Since i'm sooooo close i'm seeing if a little engineering can make it work.

To head off a comment on weight seen twice already - the tow vehicle will be a Dodge Ram Cummins Turbodiesel and the intended weight capacity of the trailer will be somewhere from 9990 to 14k tandem. Although i'm probably stuck with a ball hitch, i'm hoping (at least later) to upgrade to a virtual pivot point hitch like a Propride if I can.

Originally Posted By: supton
I looked at getting transit plates while out of state, and it seemed too much of a hassle.

How far away from home are you shopping?


Was mildly confused by the talk of transit plates unless thats about dollies - shouldn't a trailer properly licensed and registered in my home state be road legal anywhere provided it's passing through?

Up to 2200 miles one way - the whole USA and quite possibly Canada once I understand customs/importing issues.


Originally Posted By: Ramblejam


There are reasons trained engineers design these trailers in accordance with established industry NATM guidelines; such a narrow axle track as what you describe lacks the necessary lateral stability at these weights. Two, 7k axles would be appropriate here, and I don't believe they're manufactured at anything under 86".

A 14k equipment trailer would be the best bet.


I'm aware it would have less stability but it's more of a question of how much/everything is relative. I've seen 8.5 wide trailers with high center of gravity loads on them (big concrete sewer pipe - I bet the CoG is right in the middle 9 feet off the ground) that I would assume would be worse off than even my worst case scenario.

I was considering two 7k axles even if I only titled the trailer for 9990 and overbuilding it a bit just to have some reserve capacity and to better resist what would be the CoG of the car pushing like a lever against the wheels on one side harder under conditions of weight transfer.

Although if the axles aren't even AVAILABLE yes that throws a rock in things a bit. :- / That said 'as narrow as possible' is either both preferred or an issue - even if I space it for 'most cars' a duallie or Hummer H1 will overhang the sides. This is largely a question of the safety or even legal issues of that.

I agree an equip trailer may be a good bet - but it wont fit my available garage space, plus $100+/month rental storage garages add up. The whole point of the trailer is to be local (not on the farm 300 miles away - opportunity cost a big issue), always available (if I discover friday night I have to drive all night to get some deal saturday morning), and paying for it's extra creation cost by saving over the long term. (paying to park a 14k longer equipment trailer somewhere local for another $120+/month for years on end adds up to enough extra money to pay for my mods) Pay more now, save long term.


Originally Posted By: meep
fabricating such a trailer that becomes cumbersome to use, is a lot of time & $ for something that offers few performance gains. you'll hate using it, though I can appreciate the thinking going into it.

Practically, stay with what's tried and true. Tried and true also has resale value, which a rubber-block-requiring fit-to-size trailer does not.


Be that as it may, it's my time and money and encumberment. It's not intended for even weekly usage in this capacity but rather a few times per year like 3-4 and only where the available deal is worth the extra 2 hours of hassle every trip. If I started doing this ALOT (like it became a paying side job) a dedicated car hauler would pay for itself. Right now, what i'm trying to make pay for itself is "the extra marginal cost over and above what a simple flatbed costs". Maybe it costs me $800 to add this hauling ability to my flatbed - thats still less than a dedicated car hauler costs, especially over the long term/parking it.

Anything i'm putting this much effort into i'm keeping for decades. :p The cost of an extra storage garage alone over the 8 years I plan to still be stuck living where I am is $10,000. That buys alot of trailer!


Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Maybe have a look at pontoon boat trailers? I see lots of them with the wheels between the pontoons. Looks kind of tippy but I guess the CoG is still pretty reasonable?
Anyways I see lots of them also use smaller tires. Maybe a deck over with 3-4 axles of smaller tires could


Yes that's an example - i'm wondering why the same idea cannot be applied to a car if I still try to lower it as much as possible. Lets say "5.5 feet" is just too narrow - fine - that doesn't rule out 6.5 feet or if all else fails 7 feet. Even if I bite it and use say 7.5 foot wide axles i'm still curious on overhanging the front and rear - can I move 22 feet long of car with a trailer 20 feet (or 18 or even 16) safely.

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Says up to 5500lbs, but I can't imagine driving around with a car on one either...


Actually thats almost exactly what I mean framewise - except not being so ridiculously high, and with tire ramps to slide the car along when being winched, and if the vertical part could be unbolted and removed when not in use. And if you could imagine the top 'rails' being jackpoints or something so that once pulled atop you lower it to get CoG as low as feasible/lower than a flatbed equipment trailer forces with the bed over the top of the fenders. To where the front/rear tire of the hauled car is below the top level of the trailer fender and trailer tires clearly straddling fore and aft. And possibly with the nose and tail of the car hanging off each side because the trailer isn't as long as the car. :- P


Originally Posted By: wtd
For the vehicle to sit over the wheels of the trailer means the vehicle is going to sit up higher compared to a traditional car hauler trailer which doesn't sound like the most optimal way to haul a vehicle unless you are using one of the heavier duty goose neck type equipment trailers that have the deck over the wheels.

What other types of things do you want to haul on this trailer?


It's not optimal but still lower than an equipment hauler. But could it still be SAFE and legal is the question if it is an infrequent use? If it's safe with a forklift atop an equipment trailer but not a car i'm a little confused though.

If the flatbed is above the wheels like an equipment trailer the CoG is by definition higher than i'm trying to have it - the whole point of lowering it is defeated. A "flatbed over the top of the wheels equipment trailer" is the simplest solution - the extra engineering is to get it to drop almost a foot to be MORE stable. The difference of "car over the trailer wheels" as opposed to "bottom of the car tires over the top of the fenders" is a notable drop.

Sorry about resaying it so much but from the post responses I get the feeling i'm not being clear on something.

The most common other 'configurations' i'd usually have is just flatbed and boxed. (removable sides) Can I add sides to a car hauler - yes - but my biggest issues are still trailer storage in my garage (makes things much easier/saves money) and keeping CoG low if it's either narrower than normal car haulers OR a superwide vehicle. (like a Hummer H1/duallie) Even if I stop fighting the width issue, could you for instance stick 20-22 feet of car on your 18 foot trailer overhanging front and rear a bit?
 
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