Custom trailer brainstorming - hauling cars/trucks
- Thread starter columnshift
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Save yourself a lot of headaches and just find space at a reasonable price to store your own standard trailer.
That whole operation you have planned? You're going to get sick of it real fast, and nobody is going to be able to tell you of it will even work in the first place.
Narrow track trailers are not designed for the bigger loads, like a dually, and will be grossly unstable.
You will never justify the pocket change you will be saving on trailer storage.
That whole operation you have planned? You're going to get sick of it real fast, and nobody is going to be able to tell you of it will even work in the first place.
Narrow track trailers are not designed for the bigger loads, like a dually, and will be grossly unstable.
You will never justify the pocket change you will be saving on trailer storage.
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: columnshift
the tow vehicle will be a Dodge Ram Cummins Turbodiesel
Pictures?
Originally Posted By: wtd
Here is mine.
Great looking truck, Wayne! What engine?
It has the 454/4L80E combo.
Originally Posted By: columnshift
the tow vehicle will be a Dodge Ram Cummins Turbodiesel
Pictures?
Originally Posted By: wtd
Here is mine.
Great looking truck, Wayne! What engine?
It has the 454/4L80E combo.
To columnshift, I'm sure I could fit 20-22 ft of car on my trailer but It wouldn't be optimal. If I was going to be regularly hauling vehicles that long, I would go for a longer trailer. The key is to haul safely.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Does your work have a big parking lot? Do you think you can get permission/ forgiveness to park this thing in the far corner?
No unfortunately. :-/
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: columnshift
the tow vehicle will be a Dodge Ram Cummins Turbodiesel
Pictures?
Dont yet have pictures to share because I don't yet have the truck.
I currently have a 91 Chevy K1500 with about 20k (yes 20, not 200k, yes under 1000 miles/year use) I inherited from my dad, but that's not up to the future tow needs so at the point I finally get the trailer i'll be getting a stouter truck too.
And yes Wayne has a nice truck and trailer.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Save yourself a lot of headaches and just find space at a reasonable price to store your own standard trailer.
That whole operation you have planned? You're going to get sick of it real fast, and nobody is going to be able to tell you of it will even work in the first place.
Narrow track trailers are not designed for the bigger loads, like a dually, and will be grossly unstable.
You will never justify the pocket change you will be saving on trailer storage.
$10k over 8 years is more than pocket change and i'll spend at least that storing a bigger trailer within range of here. I appreciate youre trying to avoid me some hassle and annoyance, but i'm willing to put up with hassle and annoyance to save money over the next 8 years, and not willing to lose out on the vehicles it will let me haul either. (I calculate over the last two years i've 'lost' over $10,000 in opportunity cost alone by NOT having a proper trailer available WHEN I needed it/keep finding craigslist deals of not being able to wait til monday for friday night discoveries that I can have if i'm there saturday 9am 500-800 miles away)
But those discoveries are also random enough I can't predict when the next one will occur. Therefore this is what I call the "convenience trailer", not the best trailer for the job and _not the only one I plan to be using_. But the one I will always have available that at least is POSSIBLE to do the job. And honestly is a PITA to use it 3 or 4 times in a year really so hopeless? It's not like i'll be doing it every weekend. If I were i'd have to get a different trailer - this is self evident to me.
IF it is an intolerable pain in the rump, I just add that to the calculation - "do I REALLY want to do this [censored] in the middle of winter again??" (hint - if its saving thousands yes a few hours annoyance is okay) and if the answer is yes, I go. If the answer is no, I wait until I can rent a bigger trailer on monday and see if it's still there, because a bigger trailer will probably be safer and more convenient anyways.
As far as narrow track trailers, when I see heavier higher CoG skid steers on equipment trailers already I guess I don't understand how sticking things higher up is going to work better. I've also tried to make clear there are multiple factors here, if one wont work there's still 5 other things i've been asking sorta. Or if one wont work "ideally" (say the 5ft 6in width) it still exists as a preference - avoiding the widest 8.5 foot trailers and seeing what the narrowest that is usable that I can do - 7.5 foot, 7 foot, 6.5 foot, etc. (my ideal width was 5.5 to 6.5 feet, over 6.5 I have to store it in the garage in a different way so its just less flexible but I can still do a 7 or 7.5 foot wide trailer if there is zero alternative. Over 7.5 creates other major storage problems though and ideal would be like 7ft 4in/just slightly short.)
Would a 7ft 4in wide trailer (absolute maximum width including tires hubs fenders lights everything) be utterly hopelessly unsafe as a car hauler? And i'd rather have 7ft 0in - yet it still has to be possibly able to haul a wrecked Hummer H1 which shows 86.5" if I ever have another opportunity show up like the one that I already missed. >_
Originally Posted By: wtd
To columnshift, I'm sure I could fit 20-22 ft of car on my trailer but It wouldn't be optimal. If I was going to be regularly hauling vehicles that long, I would go for a longer trailer. The key is to haul safely.
If I have plenty of time and opportunity renting a more suitable trailer is the ideal strategy. This 'convenience' trailer is for when "I cant wait until monday" and it's at least possible. So how would you fit a Hummer? (which i'm assuming would not drive up between the wheelwells at 86.5 wide)
Does your work have a big parking lot? Do you think you can get permission/ forgiveness to park this thing in the far corner?
No unfortunately. :-/
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: columnshift
the tow vehicle will be a Dodge Ram Cummins Turbodiesel
Pictures?
Dont yet have pictures to share because I don't yet have the truck.
And yes Wayne has a nice truck and trailer.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Save yourself a lot of headaches and just find space at a reasonable price to store your own standard trailer.
That whole operation you have planned? You're going to get sick of it real fast, and nobody is going to be able to tell you of it will even work in the first place.
Narrow track trailers are not designed for the bigger loads, like a dually, and will be grossly unstable.
You will never justify the pocket change you will be saving on trailer storage.
$10k over 8 years is more than pocket change and i'll spend at least that storing a bigger trailer within range of here. I appreciate youre trying to avoid me some hassle and annoyance, but i'm willing to put up with hassle and annoyance to save money over the next 8 years, and not willing to lose out on the vehicles it will let me haul either. (I calculate over the last two years i've 'lost' over $10,000 in opportunity cost alone by NOT having a proper trailer available WHEN I needed it/keep finding craigslist deals of not being able to wait til monday for friday night discoveries that I can have if i'm there saturday 9am 500-800 miles away)
But those discoveries are also random enough I can't predict when the next one will occur. Therefore this is what I call the "convenience trailer", not the best trailer for the job and _not the only one I plan to be using_. But the one I will always have available that at least is POSSIBLE to do the job. And honestly is a PITA to use it 3 or 4 times in a year really so hopeless? It's not like i'll be doing it every weekend. If I were i'd have to get a different trailer - this is self evident to me.
IF it is an intolerable pain in the rump, I just add that to the calculation - "do I REALLY want to do this [censored] in the middle of winter again??" (hint - if its saving thousands yes a few hours annoyance is okay) and if the answer is yes, I go. If the answer is no, I wait until I can rent a bigger trailer on monday and see if it's still there, because a bigger trailer will probably be safer and more convenient anyways.
As far as narrow track trailers, when I see heavier higher CoG skid steers on equipment trailers already I guess I don't understand how sticking things higher up is going to work better. I've also tried to make clear there are multiple factors here, if one wont work there's still 5 other things i've been asking sorta. Or if one wont work "ideally" (say the 5ft 6in width) it still exists as a preference - avoiding the widest 8.5 foot trailers and seeing what the narrowest that is usable that I can do - 7.5 foot, 7 foot, 6.5 foot, etc. (my ideal width was 5.5 to 6.5 feet, over 6.5 I have to store it in the garage in a different way so its just less flexible but I can still do a 7 or 7.5 foot wide trailer if there is zero alternative. Over 7.5 creates other major storage problems though and ideal would be like 7ft 4in/just slightly short.)
Would a 7ft 4in wide trailer (absolute maximum width including tires hubs fenders lights everything) be utterly hopelessly unsafe as a car hauler? And i'd rather have 7ft 0in - yet it still has to be possibly able to haul a wrecked Hummer H1 which shows 86.5" if I ever have another opportunity show up like the one that I already missed. >_
Originally Posted By: wtd
To columnshift, I'm sure I could fit 20-22 ft of car on my trailer but It wouldn't be optimal. If I was going to be regularly hauling vehicles that long, I would go for a longer trailer. The key is to haul safely.
If I have plenty of time and opportunity renting a more suitable trailer is the ideal strategy. This 'convenience' trailer is for when "I cant wait until monday" and it's at least possible. So how would you fit a Hummer? (which i'm assuming would not drive up between the wheelwells at 86.5 wide)
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I think you are gravely underestimating what it will take to haul something like a dually or Hummer.
Bringing my 4600 lb. Buick Roadmaster home on a Uhaul trailer was like flying an airplane. A passing semi would set that thing to swaying pretty good.
A skid steer is not a good example to go by, because its weight is very compact, and still within the width of the wheels of the trailer. The CoG situation becomes exponentially worse when weight is outside of the track of the wheels.
You'll never see any advantage in CoG because your load is going to sit directly above the wheels, and will have to be higher than a set of large wheels and tires, and a certain amount of space for wheel travel.
Given that a set of wheels/tires for this is going to be around 28-30" tall, you'll actually be worse off than a standard trailer. Any vehicle you haul will have to be nearly 3 feet off of the ground.
The two things you need are length and width. You need to have someone make you a regular sized trailer that can be broken down into smaller pieces.
Bringing my 4600 lb. Buick Roadmaster home on a Uhaul trailer was like flying an airplane. A passing semi would set that thing to swaying pretty good.
A skid steer is not a good example to go by, because its weight is very compact, and still within the width of the wheels of the trailer. The CoG situation becomes exponentially worse when weight is outside of the track of the wheels.
You'll never see any advantage in CoG because your load is going to sit directly above the wheels, and will have to be higher than a set of large wheels and tires, and a certain amount of space for wheel travel.
Given that a set of wheels/tires for this is going to be around 28-30" tall, you'll actually be worse off than a standard trailer. Any vehicle you haul will have to be nearly 3 feet off of the ground.
The two things you need are length and width. You need to have someone make you a regular sized trailer that can be broken down into smaller pieces.
Why not just park the trailer outside? Surely you can find some place to store a real car trailer outside for little money. Hauling a vehicle on a narrow, short trailer is not going to work. As far as length, a hinged tongue might work, but you still need the width.
I would probably just get a conventional car hauling trailer and find an outside storage facility to store it. I don't know what they charge these days for outside storage but years ago I paid about $15 a month to store my boat at one.
How often do you plan on using this trailer? Mine gets used very infrequently and I wouldn't want to take up garage space on something that hardly gets used.
How often do you plan on using this trailer? Mine gets used very infrequently and I wouldn't want to take up garage space on something that hardly gets used.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I think you are gravely underestimating what it will take to haul something like a dually or Hummer.
Bringing my 4600 lb. Buick Roadmaster home on a Uhaul trailer was like flying an airplane. A passing semi would set that thing to swaying pretty good.
I'm planning for up to 8200lbs max load for the duallie or hummer (basically everything up to heavy class 3, not looking to ever get much from a class 4/5 so no 4500's or 5500's which can push 9k) and assuming up to 3800lbs for the trailer based on what i've seen elsewhere - so 12k axles minimum. Even 1st gen original dodge cummins guys on the dodge cummins boards tell me they don't even consider 12k "heavy" and that's before the power increases later models had. It's fine if the drive back home is slow once I have the prize.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
A skid steer is not a good example to go by, because its weight is very compact, and still within the width of the wheels of the trailer. The CoG situation becomes exponentially worse when weight is outside of the track of the wheels.
You'll never see any advantage in CoG because your load is going to sit directly above the wheels, and will have to be higher than a set of large wheels and tires, and a certain amount of space for wheel travel.
Well what IS the narrowest I can go and does a couple inches honestly make that big of a difference? At 7 foot 5 inches wide (after which I have to reengineer certain things in the garage to fit the trailer) it is barely less than official car/truck haulers and I cant see a difference of 1-3 inches width can make that big of a deal.
Let me try a different angle, I deleted multiple paragraphs of physics discussion to see if I can get this back on track.
Plan B is pulling the tires off anything i'm hauling bigger than a midsize car. That plus wrenching down the springs in any vehicle (possibly to the point of physically contacting 'rubber blocks' on the trailer similar to what a car hoist has on its surface) in an attempt to lower the center of gravity multiple inches to try and make it tow a little safer. Since my original plan was just to see how low I could basically get a vehicle's lower door sill over the trailer's fender, i'm probably pretty close (within an inch or two) of that anyway on Plan B. It's just the wheels and suspension that push down lower than they have to be afterall.
So lets hit the reset button slightly and reanalyze this...
Having abandoned the narrowest preference, the ideal width would be about 6ft 5in wide (77 inches) and the possible width is 7ft 5in wide (89 inches) if it makes a big difference. The storage limits are a big metal support pole in the garage that's going nowhere and cannot be argued with not even one more inch.
Assume it just had a flatbed on top of the fenders like an equipment trailer to keep it simple. Trailer will still have to carry up to the 86.5" wide hummer h1, or 1 ton DRW pickups (with the tires/rims pulled - with the brake drums theyre just a little wider than SRW).
The ideal length would be about 18.5 feet and the possible length is 21.5 feet if it makes a big difference. Trailer still has to carry vehicles up to 21-22 feet long although the wheelbase is obviously within the length of the trailer. Could have a longer toungue if that helps stability, moveable axle positions, or other things that would help. Variable length trailer that expands is theoretically possible but is there really a point to put 22 foot of car on a 21.5 foot trailer?
It would more have a point if it was 16 foot that stretched to 22 or 24 feet.
Lets ignore all other variations of the discussion and innovation and just focus on the Plan B trailer - whats wrong with it?
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Given that a set of wheels/tires for this is going to be around 28-30" tall, you'll actually be worse off than a standard trailer. Any vehicle you haul will have to be nearly 3 feet off of the ground.
The two things you need are length and width. You need to have someone make you a regular sized trailer that can be broken down into smaller pieces.
I suppose that could be a Plan C but I don't know who makes one. If the axles were 8.5 feet wide and the rest of the trailer itself was say 6.5 feet wide that might do it. I'd literally be unbolting the axles to store the trailer then - that is not beyond conceivability but it's annoying. The difference of annoying being "extra work EVERY time I take out the trailer" with Plan C, vs my original of "extra work only when i'm hauling a fullsize car/truck" and the trailer ready to roll and easy to load for smaller stuff.
So i'd only consider that if there was no other safe way to do it. That option is still better than either "no trailer" or "too small a trailer" or "paying to store the trailer elsewhere" believe it or not.
Which gives me a thought... I don't suppose there's anything along the line of using dual wheel type axle flange but with single wheels so that I could dramatically alter the wheel backspacing/effective track width of the trailer axle is there? Just strong enough wheel flanges so that in storage/normal use I could backspaced the single tire to fit flush with the hubs (at 89 inches) and fit in easy storage... but able to flip the rim inside out/use the outer part of a duallie rim (just as a single tire since I dont need doubles for the weight) once I have the trailer on the street out of storage, literally gaining a foot or more of track width? This would be a minor enough change it would be no biggie when going to pick up a fullsize vehicle.
I think you are gravely underestimating what it will take to haul something like a dually or Hummer.
Bringing my 4600 lb. Buick Roadmaster home on a Uhaul trailer was like flying an airplane. A passing semi would set that thing to swaying pretty good.
I'm planning for up to 8200lbs max load for the duallie or hummer (basically everything up to heavy class 3, not looking to ever get much from a class 4/5 so no 4500's or 5500's which can push 9k) and assuming up to 3800lbs for the trailer based on what i've seen elsewhere - so 12k axles minimum. Even 1st gen original dodge cummins guys on the dodge cummins boards tell me they don't even consider 12k "heavy" and that's before the power increases later models had. It's fine if the drive back home is slow once I have the prize.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
A skid steer is not a good example to go by, because its weight is very compact, and still within the width of the wheels of the trailer. The CoG situation becomes exponentially worse when weight is outside of the track of the wheels.
You'll never see any advantage in CoG because your load is going to sit directly above the wheels, and will have to be higher than a set of large wheels and tires, and a certain amount of space for wheel travel.
Well what IS the narrowest I can go and does a couple inches honestly make that big of a difference? At 7 foot 5 inches wide (after which I have to reengineer certain things in the garage to fit the trailer) it is barely less than official car/truck haulers and I cant see a difference of 1-3 inches width can make that big of a deal.
Let me try a different angle, I deleted multiple paragraphs of physics discussion to see if I can get this back on track.
Plan B is pulling the tires off anything i'm hauling bigger than a midsize car. That plus wrenching down the springs in any vehicle (possibly to the point of physically contacting 'rubber blocks' on the trailer similar to what a car hoist has on its surface) in an attempt to lower the center of gravity multiple inches to try and make it tow a little safer. Since my original plan was just to see how low I could basically get a vehicle's lower door sill over the trailer's fender, i'm probably pretty close (within an inch or two) of that anyway on Plan B. It's just the wheels and suspension that push down lower than they have to be afterall.
So lets hit the reset button slightly and reanalyze this...
Having abandoned the narrowest preference, the ideal width would be about 6ft 5in wide (77 inches) and the possible width is 7ft 5in wide (89 inches) if it makes a big difference. The storage limits are a big metal support pole in the garage that's going nowhere and cannot be argued with not even one more inch.
Assume it just had a flatbed on top of the fenders like an equipment trailer to keep it simple. Trailer will still have to carry up to the 86.5" wide hummer h1, or 1 ton DRW pickups (with the tires/rims pulled - with the brake drums theyre just a little wider than SRW).
The ideal length would be about 18.5 feet and the possible length is 21.5 feet if it makes a big difference. Trailer still has to carry vehicles up to 21-22 feet long although the wheelbase is obviously within the length of the trailer. Could have a longer toungue if that helps stability, moveable axle positions, or other things that would help. Variable length trailer that expands is theoretically possible but is there really a point to put 22 foot of car on a 21.5 foot trailer?
It would more have a point if it was 16 foot that stretched to 22 or 24 feet.Lets ignore all other variations of the discussion and innovation and just focus on the Plan B trailer - whats wrong with it?
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Given that a set of wheels/tires for this is going to be around 28-30" tall, you'll actually be worse off than a standard trailer. Any vehicle you haul will have to be nearly 3 feet off of the ground.
The two things you need are length and width. You need to have someone make you a regular sized trailer that can be broken down into smaller pieces.
I suppose that could be a Plan C but I don't know who makes one. If the axles were 8.5 feet wide and the rest of the trailer itself was say 6.5 feet wide that might do it. I'd literally be unbolting the axles to store the trailer then - that is not beyond conceivability but it's annoying. The difference of annoying being "extra work EVERY time I take out the trailer" with Plan C, vs my original of "extra work only when i'm hauling a fullsize car/truck" and the trailer ready to roll and easy to load for smaller stuff.
So i'd only consider that if there was no other safe way to do it. That option is still better than either "no trailer" or "too small a trailer" or "paying to store the trailer elsewhere" believe it or not.
Which gives me a thought... I don't suppose there's anything along the line of using dual wheel type axle flange but with single wheels so that I could dramatically alter the wheel backspacing/effective track width of the trailer axle is there? Just strong enough wheel flanges so that in storage/normal use I could backspaced the single tire to fit flush with the hubs (at 89 inches) and fit in easy storage... but able to flip the rim inside out/use the outer part of a duallie rim (just as a single tire since I dont need doubles for the weight) once I have the trailer on the street out of storage, literally gaining a foot or more of track width? This would be a minor enough change it would be no biggie when going to pick up a fullsize vehicle.
I would go with plan "D". Do nothing, or build a bigger garage, instead of a $20k +++ trailer that's not going to work. Where do you work on all these vehicles you have to buy? You are probably lucky you missed out on a deal for a wrecked Hummer anyway. Buy a small trailer, and just shop for small cars.
OK, given the new constraints, what I would do is have a trailer build with a deck above the wheels, ramp style, with triple Timbren axle-less suspension. I would also have it built with the deck being my maximum length, and the extended tongue being completely removable.
In doing this, you might meet all of your goals. The ramp-style would keep at least the rear end of the vehicle close as possible to the ground, and triple axles would give you maximum distribution of the load across the ground and maximum directional stability. I'm no engineer, so it's impossible to say if this is actually a winner, but it's closer to making sense than anything so far.
For brakes, I would do no less than electric brakes on all six wheels, with the best trailer brake controller that you can get.
I'd also say that a weight distributing hitch is a given. Something really good. Not the cheap stuff.
In doing this, you might meet all of your goals. The ramp-style would keep at least the rear end of the vehicle close as possible to the ground, and triple axles would give you maximum distribution of the load across the ground and maximum directional stability. I'm no engineer, so it's impossible to say if this is actually a winner, but it's closer to making sense than anything so far.
For brakes, I would do no less than electric brakes on all six wheels, with the best trailer brake controller that you can get.
I'd also say that a weight distributing hitch is a given. Something really good. Not the cheap stuff.
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