Custom Motor Build -- Conventional over Synthetic?

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Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

How do know the factory does not use conventional oil to break in an engine then install synthetic? I sure would be interested to know this.
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Why would they? The cost of filling with DINO, running for the quality assurance test, then draining and installing new synthetic would be cost prohibitive in itself. Synthetic in itself is not "slipperiest" than Dino. It is simply more robust and uniform in it molecular chain make up. This allows it to be made alittle thinner on the scale and still protect. This is where the gas mileage increase comes from, and in some cases the increased noise some users experience. Other than that synthetic will break in an engine just as we'll as an equally additive-based Dino will.

Do you know for sure or are you speculating?
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Makes sense to me what Tim said.

Yes it does.But,is it just speculation? I stated before that I used conventional oil for break in and if I chose to I would run synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Factory machining is much better than the machining in even a top quality shop.


Absolutely baloney. My BIL has a clean room in his shop and assembles motors that sell for 40k or even more!

He is dozens of ways better than ANY factory assembled motor.
 
Virtually no one 'breaks in' their engines. Only high end cars like Ferrari who tests their cars on a track after assembly.

Very rare.
 
Originally Posted By: ThatGuyOverThere
Hi everyone,

I am rebuilding my motor, it's a stroker engine, V8, 5.3L and will be supercharged.

The engine builders recommend 10w40 for the break in, non-synthetic. They recommend I run 10w40 non-synthetic on regular use as well.

Is there any reason why conventional is better than synthetic here? I understand the weight of the oil is spec'd to the motor tolerances and whatnot. I just can't figure out why they recommend against synthetic oil.

With that said, which brand/line 10w40 conventional oil tends to be better for performance and protection. I don't mind changing the oil out early (3000 miles or even earlier) since the car doesn't get driven too much.

To be clear, this is a street driven car and is regularly used in the city and freeway, occasional race track use. It's driven in cold winters and hot summers as well.

Thanks!

I would stick with the engine builders recommendations, none of the so called experts on this board turned any wrenches on the engine,
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Originally Posted By: Malo83
I would stick with the engine builders recommendations, none of the so called experts on this board turned any wrenches on the engine,
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I agree.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Virtually no one 'breaks in' their engines. Only high end cars like Ferrari who tests their cars on a track after assembly.

Very rare.


I always break in the cam.20 minutes at 2K rpm.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Not speculating based on manufacturers not requiring break- in on new vehicles. You can do a google search and have Thst answered as well.

Before installation manufacturers run new engines on a test stand and monitor it for 10-15 minutes, that is the critical "break-in" period right there.
This is in addition to many quality control checks throughout the machining and assembly process.

They also recommend moderate driving for the first 50-60 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Not speculating based on manufacturers not requiring break- in on new vehicles. You can do a google search and have Thst answered as well.

Before installation manufacturers run new engines on a test stand and monitor it for 10-15 minutes, that is the critical "break-in" period right there.
This is in addition to many quality control checks throughout the machining and assembly process.

They also recommend moderate driving for the first 50-60 miles.



the moderate driving is generally for the transmission and differentials to heat cycle. the engine can safely rev its entire range after one good heat cycle, which it will get on its way off the assembly line.
 
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Factory machining is much better than the machining in even a top quality shop.


This is the correct answer. Factory engines come out of the machine process with 8-10 micron bore roughness, while the typical hot-rod shop comes out of the machineing with 25-30 micron bore roughness. The factories have more modern bore hones and machines than the hot-rod shops.

The dino oil in break in allows the piston rings to lap the bore and run it down to the 10-ish micron bore roughness that has two properties. A) the roughness is enough to hold oil as the rings pass by, and B) is smooth enogh so that wear pretty much stops at that point. So you see the bore increas in diameter by 15-odd microns as the tops of the honing process are lapped back to about what the factory engins leave the block machining step at. C) sometimes the rings need a little lapping in order to have a nice face to bore surface to complete the seal. Factory rings are preprocessed to this kind of face.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Not speculating based on manufacturers not requiring break- in on new vehicles. You can do a google search and have Thst answered as well.

Before installation manufacturers run new engines on a test stand and monitor it for 10-15 minutes, that is the critical "break-in" period right there.
This is in addition to many quality control checks throughout the machining and assembly process.

They also recommend moderate driving for the first 50-60 miles.


This is simply not true. SOME do, but the overwhelming majority are NOT pre-run at all.

OMG, the production lines at most mfgrs spit cars out every few seconds! They definitely do NOT break in your motor for you.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Factory machining is much better than the machining in even a top quality shop.


This is the correct answer. Factory engines come out of the machine process with 8-10 micron bore roughness, while the typical hot-rod shop comes out of the machineing with 25-30 micron bore roughness. The factories have more modern bore hones and machines than the hot-rod shops.

The dino oil in break in allows the piston rings to lap the bore and run it down to the 10-ish micron bore roughness that has two properties. A) the roughness is enough to hold oil as the rings pass by, and B) is smooth enogh so that wear pretty much stops at that point. So you see the bore increas in diameter by 15-odd microns as the tops of the honing process are lapped back to about what the factory engins leave the block machining step at. C) sometimes the rings need a little lapping in order to have a nice face to bore surface to complete the seal. Factory rings are preprocessed to this kind of face.


Could be true of some sloppy shops, but absolutely not all of them.

When someone brings you a 20 grand crate motor and orders 20 grand of machining you are allowed to raise your expectations a bit. There is NO WAY any mass produced engine can match the balancing and blueprinting you'll get in a competent professional's shop!
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Before installation manufacturers run new engines on a test stand and monitor it for 10-15 minutes, that is the critical "break-in" period right there.
This is in addition to many quality control checks throughout the machining and assembly process.

They also recommend moderate driving for the first 50-60 miles.

Perhaps that is the engine they randomly pick for Quality Assurance Inspections?

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
This is simply not true. SOME do, but the overwhelming majority are NOT pre-run at all.

OMG, the production lines at most mfgrs spit cars out every few seconds! They definitely do NOT break in your motor for you.


Agreed..
 
I spoke with a Chevron tech rep about the use of Techron a few weeks ago. While I had him on the phone, I asked him about the use of synthetic oil for initial start up of a rebuilt engine. He stated that the use of synthetic oil will not cause any problems with engine break in. I was asking specifically about a 460 Ford engine that a friend of mine just rebuilt. I believe the myth that synthetic oil will cause ring sealing problems goes along with the long held theory that rings won't seat properly unless non detergent oil is used on initial start up.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Before installation manufacturers run new engines on a test stand and monitor it for 10-15 minutes, that is the critical "break-in" period right there.
This is in addition to many quality control checks throughout the machining and assembly process.

This is simply not true. SOME do, but the overwhelming majority are NOT pre-run at all.

OMG, the production lines at most mfgrs spit cars out every few seconds! They definitely do NOT break in your motor for you.

My understanding is every single engine is fired up the first time on a test stand, using natural gas as fuel, in groups, at the engine manufacturing plant, not the assembly line.

This is not only limited to engines, almost everything gets tested in some way before installation, transmissions, speedometers, etc.

That how relatively problem free vehicles can come off the line "every few seconds"
 
My understanding is that when engines are made they are just spun for a few seconds (my guess being just to make sure they don't bind, etc) and rolled down the line. Engine and machining build has become so routine and accurate that run-ins are no longer needed. They do take some randommly off the line and actually fire them up for QA purposes.
 
A very good reason to use a dino in a fresh rebuild is cost.
Why use a long lasting oil for 1k-2k? [or less]
Dino certainly is not substandard for break in, and this is enough reason for me.

Factory engines are built very well indeed now, and are not the same as anybody's aftermarket rebuild.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
My understanding is that when engines are made they are just spun for a few seconds (my guess being just to make sure they don't bind, etc) and rolled down the line. Engine and machining build has become so routine and accurate that run-ins are no longer needed. They do take some randommly off the line and actually fire them up for QA purposes.

We're talking about internal combustion engines here, not lug nuts.

They spin them briefly when the short block is assembled, it then the moves further down the line for the eventual run in, mind you these are not fully dressed engines at that point.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
My understanding is that when engines are made they are just spun for a few seconds (my guess being just to make sure they don't bind, etc) and rolled down the line. Engine and machining build has become so routine and accurate that run-ins are no longer needed. They do take some randommly off the line and actually fire them up for QA purposes.

We're talking about internal combustion engines here, not lug nuts.


^^^
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^^^
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
My understanding is that when engines are made they are just spun for a few seconds (my guess being just to make sure they don't bind, etc) and rolled down the line. Engine and machining build has become so routine and accurate that run-ins are no longer needed. They do take some randommly off the line and actually fire them up for QA purposes.

We're talking about internal combustion engines here, not lug nuts.

They spin them briefly when the short block is assembled, it then the moves further down the line for the eventual run in, mind you these are not fully dressed engines at that point.


I can assure you that this is simply not true.

Only in very particular and expensive cars are the engines actually run at the factory. For almost ANY mass produced car the first run occurs at start up at the end of the assembly line. Few cars are driven anywhere but to the storage lot!

And if you guys saw the hospital clean room with filtered air and controlled humidity, etc., that our family shop goes to great expense to maintain you'd know that almost no one anywhere mass produces a motor with such care AND precision. Right down to ring gaps and bearing clearances, everything is checked and logged in a book.

I guess some of us here are still thinking a greasy guy in coveralls is bolting things together!
 
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