Cummins N-14, Amsoil HDD 5w30, 24532 miles on samp

[SR56]

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BearGator56,

There is a perception that FF filters can't remove soot particles, since they are soo small. This is technically true, if in fact these are discrete particles and not masses of soot that have clumped together. What happens is that once the soot has reached a certain concentration, the soot starts to clump or agglomerate, due to electrostatic attraction. Once that occurs, these clumped particles can and will be removed by the oil filter.

There is actually a controlled test that is part of the API, CI-4+ and CJ-4 specifications that evaluates the ability of an engine oil to minimize filter plugging. As I recall, the limit of this test is when you reach 79 psid (pressure differential), across the filter media. In other words, this is a severe overtest.

PAO basestocks generally do a superior job of suspending/dispersing soot. This is true even if they have the exact same additive chemistry as a petroleum lubricant.
So using a low viscosity, 5w-30, PAO/Ester synthetic is going to get you the best results under these conditions. I suspect a 15w-40 petroleum lube would be a 20w-50 or 25w-50 with these soot levels you're seeing and the truck would not start easily in cold weather.

If you have time, I'd cut the 7500 mile filter open; spread out the pleats and look for signs of clumped soot particles. Wash it out with some mineral spirits if you have to ....

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The oil I use is Amsoil's Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel 5w30. I will grab another oil sample at 7500 miles (and change the filter), and post it. Not sure how long it will take for the soot to work itself out from the blown injector. As long as I can get another 30,000 miles off of this oil, I think I'll be fine for a while. I'm hoping to get well over 50k on a change, though.

 

[bmwtechguy]

Doesn't Amsoil make some sort of Dual-Guard bypass filter for these large engines? I noticed in their recent filter literature that they claim significant soot removal with their new bypass filter, the EaBP series. How do these compare with the others mentioned?

 

[SR56]

Amsoil does have several bypass systems. Not sure how they stack up.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

If you put the bypass on you should be able to run that oil quite a while, even with the previous soot problem. When the tech said it ran 83% what exactly did he mean by that. I'd be more interested in actual HP and TQ numbers. Also consider that ambient temperatures and altitude will make a difference in dyno numbers. Also, engine manufactures give flywheel data and you had your truck on a chassis dyno unless they pulled the engine out to dyno it! A chassis dyno will always read lower than flywheel. So if he is comparing your current numbers to a chassis dyno when your truck was new then fine, if he is comparing your current dyno to OEM numbers this will be skewed.

You will probably notice a bit better idle and throttle response now. Your fuel mileage may go up, but you should be making a noticeable difference in power. It'll probably be like driving a new truck again! I like the N14's, they are a good engine. That engine family has been around along time as the N14 is an outgrowth of the big HP Big Cams.

 

[SteveD2]

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Amsoil does have several bypass systems. Not sure how they stack up.

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If you like a spin on filter, Amsoil units are very nice. I have one, cost me less than $140 for it buying it in pieces from eBay.

The filters are pricey, but since you are most likely a preferred customer (if your not, it will save you some serious money on oil), they aren't that bad. They are absolute at 2 micron, which isn't as good as the TP filters, but they seem to work pretty good.

What I like about the amsoil filters is the fact if you place the return to the oil cap, you can inspect the return flow to ensure your filter is actually working...no flow = plugged filter, they will not bypass dirty oil.

I am very impressed with my EaBP100 filter...I have over 15k on this filter with no signs of plugging...probably run at least 30k on this filter and 10k on the oil and full flow filter (I run dino Rotella). I know you are talking a LOT more oil, but I think the Amsoil filter would still be applicable...

steved

 

[Andy H]

I do Class 8 work. I would skip the AutoRX cycle, and skip the bypass installation for now. I'd also skip the Donaldson additive filter and use one of their standard ELF filters.

The first interval with the HDD cleaned the engine and will clean the ring pack at least as well as an AutoRX cycle.

Here's one of my conversions: 2001 Pete/Cat C15, 640K miles long haul. Started with 13,000 mile OCIs using Baldwin paper filters and Delvac 1300 15W-40. Driver used 3 gallons of add oil on the road, and came in 1 gallon low.

We used AMSOIL engine flush (1 gallon, idled 40 minutes) then drained/filled with 15W-40 Diesel/Marine. Baldwin filters at 13,000 miles and oil analysis with each filter. First oil interval was 69,500 miles. Add oil was 2 gallons in the first 13,000 miles, then 1 gallon in the 2nd 13,000 miles, no add oil in the 3rd, and up to 1 1/2 gallons in the final interval as the oil got dirty.

Second fill of synthetic went 120,000 miles, and we've been doing that for the past 2 1/2 years. Now using Donaldson Endurance filters with 50,000 mile intervals.

The first interval of the oil will look bad because it's cleaning the engine. The first interval will be shorter because the additives are being depleted to clean. The soot is probably higher because of the cool oil pan drain - the pan is covered in sooty sludge.

PS: If you plan to continue with AMSOIL, get with your dealer for a Commercial account. It's free and the pricing is better than Dealer/Preferred Customer.

Andy Hecker
San Antonio

 

[Andy H]

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Doesn't Amsoil make some sort of Dual-Guard bypass filter for these large engines? I noticed in their recent filter literature that they claim significant soot removal with their new bypass filter, the EaBP series. How do these compare with the others mentioned?

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The EaBP filters are rated for 39% soot removal using ISO 23556. Centrifuges come in at about 32%. Removal is nearly 50% in conjunction with a Donaldson Endurance filter.

Initial kit price is low, and filters are cost effective. The Donaldson Endurance full-flow can run to between 40K and 60K miles in long-haul service. The bypass filters are every other full-flow change. With the long-haul O/Os I work with, full-flows are changed at 50K, bypass elements at 100K. That's 4 gallons of oil added for filter changes. Add oil is waaaay down, because the bypass filter keeps the oil clean. Dirty oil gets past the rings easier.

The only side-by-side I've seen is when a customer installed an AMSOIL bypass on his truck beside the Spinner II centrifuge he'd been running. The Spinner was empty once the AMSOIL filters went on-line. He removed the Spinner after 50K miles side-by-side. That was with the 'last generation' BE110 filters - not the more effective EaBP filters.

Andy Hecker

 

[wjdell]

That is to long for that oil cut back to 15k. It was probably doing fine till the soot got out control. EGR -

 

[SR56]

Just took a sample on the "new" oil. It has almost 12k miles on it. I'm debating whether to send it to Dyson, or the Oil Analyzers. OA is definitely more cost effective for me.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

I'd go with Oil Analyzers to see if anything has improved, post it here for some commentary. If it has not improved at all, then you may want to consider having Dyson look at it.