2021 Chevy Duramax L5P - 9,750 miles/239 hours on oil - 31,300 total miles/734 total hours - HPL 5w-40

wwillson

Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
6,888
Location
Colorado
This is a 2021 Chevy 3500 DRW L5P Duramax that pulls a 20,000 pound 5th wheel for a combined GVW of 29,500 pounds. I'm still pulling in eighth gear and oil consumption continues to be zero. EGTs when pulling average about 900°F vs. 1200°F when pulling in 10th. I'm very happy with how the HPL performed with 4.6ppm FE/1000 miles. Silicon only increased by 3ppm in 9,750 miles, which tells me the air filter is performing well. TBN retention is very good with a TBN of 13.76 after 10,000 miles and five months use. The viscosity is virtually the same as brand new oil, this oil doesn't shear.

Previous sample here:


Sample Information
Sample Date6/23/202107/17/20218/24/20214/4/20227/1/20228/10/20221/18/2023
Machine Age miles2,5002,7008,90016,00021,50021,55031,300
Oil Age miles2,5002006,40013,50019,000509,750
Machine Time hours5562214350495496734
Oil Time hours5571522954401239
Filter Age miles2,5002006,4007,1004,000505,000
Oil ChangedYesNoNoNoYesNoNo
Filter ChangedYesNoYesYesYesNoYes
Make-up oil0001.5 qts2.500
BrandFactoryHPLHPLHPLHPLHPLHPL
Viscosity15w-405w-40 CK-45w-40 CK-45w-40 CK-45w-40 CK-45w-40 CK-45w-40 CK-4
Wear Metals
Iron12436671021661
ChromiumTD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]2
34TD]
[TD]2
NickelTD]
[TD]0
0TD]
[TD]0
TD]
[TD]TD]
TitaniumTD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]0
TD]
Silver3TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
AluminumTD]
[TD]0
15131438
Lead6124312
Copper109288518820329185
Tin6106622
VanandiumTD]
[TD]0
0TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
Additives
Boron1201512216314
BariumTD]
[TD]0
00004
Molybdenum2514450504537541469
ManganeseTD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]1
2TD]
[TD]2
Magnesium6729959681008924913831
Calcium1260243924142557245923752111
Phosphorus1000109910291064981973847
Zinc1155117911481285123311591078
Contaminants
Silicon87334846541821
Sodium7533525
Potassium112435559616
Fuel %TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
[TD]TD]
GlycolNEGNEGNEGNEGNEGNEGNEG
Soot%0.10.10.40.60.80.20.6
Fluid Condition
TBN8.5514.913.313.710.813.913.76
Viscosity13.914.513.814.9714.514.414.5
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]
 
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I'm tempted to bolt a Spinner II filter to my dad's 14L D60 and switch him to HPL. Currently he's running Delvac Extreme 15W-40 with 1.5 gallons of HPL EC40. He's also super-happy with how the HPL MT-50 performs in his 13-speed Eaton-Fuller transmission. I am overly confident in HPL products and what Mr. David Ward and his excellent engineering team lead by Dr. Leslie Rudnick can do. Your UOAs reinforce our confidence in HPL products even more!
 
Impressive for hard working oil. Will you continue with 5000 mi filter change intervals and why are you doing that?
Mostly because the filter is so small, partially because I still see quite a bit of machining/manufacturing debris in the filter.

 
Mostly because the filter is so small, partially because I still see quite a bit of machining/manufacturing debris in the filter.


Mr. Wilson, would this be a suitable replacement for the PF26 oil filter?


Personally, I had good experiences with PPE products, mostly oil pans for engines and transmissions.
 
Mr. Wilson, would this be a suitable replacement for the PF26 oil filter?


Personally, I had good experiences with PPE products, mostly oil pans for engines and transmissions.
Interesting, I will take a look.
 
That PPE filter also requires a relocation kit.

This kit replaces the factory heater coolant pump mounting bracket and moves the pump farther away from the oil filter so that the PPE High Efficiency 2020+ L5P Deep Oil Filter (114000750) can be installed.

It seems rather uncomplicated to install.

Typical marketing hype; the "5 um" filtration claim is unbounded ... what efficiency at 5um???????
I completely ignored that. I simply like bigger oil filters and when possible I install them if the engine I have allows for such an upgrade. That's the reason why I suggested it.
 
That's really shredding some copper! Isn't there a standard ratio like 20% of Iron is "Normal"? I saw a chart from an oil company showing Generally greater than >75 Copper is "Critical". That's based on 250 Iron so 30% of Iron 250 would be 75 copper in the Critical category.

Your iron 61 & copper being 185 that's just wild but I live under a rock. There's the internet chart world & then their's boots on the ground, like you, that are showing what happens in the real world.

I'm not trying to sound the alarm & you have a scheduled plan on this oil but the copper is bothering me compared to the other contaminates. I noticed that, while iron counts are low, copper seems to shred a bit more in these Duramax engines.

Thanks for posting
 
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That's really shredding some copper! Isn't there a standard ratio like 20% of Iron is "Normal"? I saw a chart from an oil company showing Generally greater than >75 Copper is "Critical". That's based on 250 Iron so 30% of Iron 250 would be 75 copper in the Critical category.

Your iron 61 & copper being 185 that's just wild but I live under a rock. There's the internet chart world & then their's boots on the ground, like you, that are showing what happens in the real world.

I'm not trying to sound the alarm & you have a scheduled plan on this oil but the copper is bothering me compared to the other contaminates. I noticed that, while iron counts are low, copper seems to shred a bit more in these Duramax engines.

Thanks for posting
Read this article at Machinery Lubrication, it does a great job of explaining where copper comes from and why it usually means nothing for an engine.

 
Read this article at Machinery Lubrication, it does a great job of explaining where copper comes from and why it usually means nothing for an engine.


Thanks for that article link

I didn't see anything that stated anything close to "It usually means nothing". It depends on the source is what I take from it.

Some statements from the article caught my attention.

"Because copper suspensions from cooler core leaching and coolant leaks are soluble or the associated copper particulates are smaller than 1 micron, they likely won’t appear on the membrane for microscopic analysis. Only the copper from wear will be visible, which is helpful in distinguishing the source."

"From the oil analyst’s perspective, determining the source, nature and state of copper is essential to correctly interpreting the alarm in terms of engine reliability and the appropriate response."

"For new engines with less than 1,500 hours of service life, the cooler core becomes an active reaction site for the ZDDP, resulting in copper sulfides forming on the copper cooler tubes."

I'll have to wonder what the copper will look like once you reach a 1500 hour use of your truck.


You can see from their chart graph, from 30,000+ Oil samples, states the average Copper is 65% less than iron. While it does show the copper can "Vary" more than iron the averages are still compelling. Put another way... Out of 30K OTR Truck samples Iron is 60% higher than Copper on average.

Furthermore, The standard deviation on that graph shows copper can vary, higher than iron, by 61%. Your copper is over 300% of Iron. This is way over even the standard deviation of that graph of 30k oil samples.

Perhaps this UOA is showing there is still some leaching from various components & not any major wear going on but it still is something to look at. This is in no way trying to detract you from your mission here & is solely my thoughts & what I see.

Keep on truckin'
 
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Thanks for that article link

I didn't see anything that stated anything close to "It usually means nothing". It depends on the source is what I take from it.

Some statements from the article caught my attention.

"Because copper suspensions from cooler core leaching and coolant leaks are soluble or the associated copper particulates are smaller than 1 micron, they likely won’t appear on the membrane for microscopic analysis. Only the copper from wear will be visible, which is helpful in distinguishing the source."

"From the oil analyst’s perspective, determining the source, nature and state of copper is essential to correctly interpreting the alarm in terms of engine reliability and the appropriate response."

"For new engines with less than 1,500 hours of service life, the cooler core becomes an active reaction site for the ZDDP, resulting in copper sulfides forming on the copper cooler tubes."

I'll have to wonder what the copper will look like once you reach a 1500 hour use of your truck.


You can see from their chart graph, from 30,000+ Oil samples, states the average Copper is 65% less than iron. While it does show the copper can "Vary" more than iron the averages are still compelling. Put another way... Out of 30K OTR Truck samples Iron is 60% higher than Copper on average.

Furthermore, The standard deviation on that graph shows copper can vary, higher than iron, by 61%. Your copper is over 300% of Iron. This is way over even the standard deviation of that graph of 30k oil samples.

Perhaps this UOA is showing there is still some leaching from various components & not any major wear going on but it still is something to look at. This is in no way trying to detract you from your mission here & is solely my thoughts & what I see.

Keep on truckin'
I performed 3 UOAs on a 6.6 LML over a 7 year period, about every 3rd oil change. Finally after 100,000 miles the copper was down to near zero.
Other metals trended down as well over this time period.
 
Thanks for that article link

I didn't see anything that stated anything close to "It usually means nothing". It depends on the source is what I take from it.

Some statements from the article caught my attention.

"Because copper suspensions from cooler core leaching and coolant leaks are soluble or the associated copper particulates are smaller than 1 micron, they likely won’t appear on the membrane for microscopic analysis. Only the copper from wear will be visible, which is helpful in distinguishing the source."

"From the oil analyst’s perspective, determining the source, nature and state of copper is essential to correctly interpreting the alarm in terms of engine reliability and the appropriate response."

"For new engines with less than 1,500 hours of service life, the cooler core becomes an active reaction site for the ZDDP, resulting in copper sulfides forming on the copper cooler tubes."

I'll have to wonder what the copper will look like once you reach a 1500 hour use of your truck.


You can see from their chart graph, from 30,000+ Oil samples, states the average Copper is 65% less than iron. While it does show the copper can "Vary" more than iron the averages are still compelling. Put another way... Out of 30K OTR Truck samples Iron is 60% higher than Copper on average.

Furthermore, The standard deviation on that graph shows copper can vary, higher than iron, by 61%. Your copper is over 300% of Iron. This is way over even the standard deviation of that graph of 30k oil samples.

Perhaps this UOA is showing there is still some leaching from various components & not any major wear going on but it still is something to look at. This is in no way trying to detract you from your mission here & is solely my thoughts & what I see.

Keep on truckin'
I should have been more clear. The Duramax oil cooler is known to leach copper into the oil. The leaching slowly dissipates over time, which I expect will happen in my Duramax. @dnewton3 has a large database of Duramax UOAs and has done lots of statistical analysis of the data. @dnewton3, what is the trend you see in the Duramax data?

Knowing that the Duramax oil cooler leaches copper is why I said I'm not concerned about the copper in the oil. The article didn't say, "Wayne, you are in the clear, nothing to worry about." :)
 
I should have been more clear. The Duramax oil cooler is known to leach copper into the oil. The leaching slowly dissipates over time, which I expect will happen in my Duramax. @dnewton3 has a large database of Duramax UOAs and has done lots of statistical analysis of the data. @dnewton3, what is the trend you see in the Duramax data?

Knowing that the Duramax oil cooler leaches copper is why I said I'm not concerned about the copper in the oil. The article didn't say, "Wayne, you are in the clear, nothing to worry about." :)
Yep. A Caltex instruction video warned against changing brands of engine oil from one drain interval to the next, because just as the copper is deactivated, the next additive package may scrub it off and start the process all over.
 
I should have been more clear. The Duramax oil cooler is known to leach copper into the oil. The leaching slowly dissipates over time, which I expect will happen in my Duramax. @dnewton3 has a large database of Duramax UOAs and has done lots of statistical analysis of the data. @dnewton3, what is the trend you see in the Duramax data?

Knowing that the Duramax oil cooler leaches copper is why I said I'm not concerned about the copper in the oil. The article didn't say, "Wayne, you are in the clear, nothing to worry about." :)
Too funny

I could have worded the beginning statement better. I too would like so see if DNewton could "Shed" some light on copper with Dmax ratio's. I'm not denying they are some of the "Best wearing engines" but I've taken notice they seem to have higher copper though compared to say other Medium duty engines in light trucks.

As another poster mentioned after 100k they really seen the copper trend to nothing substantial. Although I'm going to assume yours will be higher than a lot if you're using it to tow exclusively. Is this all tow miles?

It's great to have these discussions. Where else in the world can we spend so much time & have this much fun :p

Thanks
 
I performed 3 UOAs on a 6.6 LML over a 7 year period, about every 3rd oil change. Finally after 100,000 miles the copper was down to near zero.
Other metals trended down as well over this time period.
That is good news.. so there is some obvious leaching going on but it will subside in the long haul. Thanks
 
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