OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Until you try to drive in the winter, because no driver can react to locked up wheels as fast as the computer can, and NO DRIVER can lock and unlock the brakes as fast as a good ABS system can.
Not to mention, when most people see a puppy, or a deer or another car cross in front of them when they weren't expecting it... Their first reaction is going to be to slam on the brakes. Without ABS, this will cause all 4 tires to lockup, and you lose steering completely, potentially flipping the car in the process. With ABS, the wheels will still turn, and you may be able to steer around said obstacle.
The operative word here is "good."
A bad ABS system is still often better than nothing, but IMO the benefit is small enough that you still need to be a decent driver to work with it... at which point you almost might as well remove the ABS system and save the weight.
Plus, I have a feeling BuickGN has a good deal more experience than you do in low-traction conditions.
Probably. But you find me a driver in which the scenario I described will not result in a panic braking. The ABS on my cavalier isn't that great, but without it I definitely would have been in an accident this past winter. I pulled into the school parking lot, which is a slight downslope. Doing, 10ish mph, road looked clear. Vehicles up ahead waiting in line.... put brakes on to stop. Kept sliding, ABS kicked in and I managed to steer to the side. Black ice, completely invisble on the road surface they used.
Having driven everything from a Fox Body Mustang with summer tires on it to a diesel pick-up in the winter for the last 15 years, and commuting through the New Brunswick snow belt for a year through one of the worst winters I can remember, I do believe I am qualified to speak about this.
ABS has never made the difference between me hitting and not hitting something in the winter. I've never hit anything in the winter, or been in a winter accident. [censored], I drove my motorcycle home 7Km in 3" of snow because I was [censored]-bent on driving it until the snow flew..... (December) and it did! LOL!
I've never locked up the wheels in an emergency stop without knowing what to do when it happens. And I have NEVER come close to almost flipping/rolling a vehicle; not stopping for deer; avoiding an accident or whatever.
Proper CONTROL of the vehicle is what the general population lacks. Combine that and poor vehicular maintenance and you have derelict wrecks being driven by incompetitent pylons who are depending on band-aide systems to make up for their lack of driving skill.
Do I like having the ABS on the Expedition? Sometimes. It makes "lazy" winter braking easier. But knowing how to winter drive; LEARNING how to winter drive in vehicles that don't have ABS.... Mean it is far from a necessity for me.
There was another poster a while back who argued that every person should learn to drive on a gutless piece of junk that is stick and has power NOTHING. I agree with that sentiment.
Like BuickGN..... I like to steer with the throttle. Anybody who's ever driven a powerful RWD car with no Nannie features knows how much fun that can be. But it is a learning experience as well.
In your exact situation? I would have let off the brakes to steer, alternating between brakes and steering to direct a course. My approach may have also been slower. Again, that is from years of experience driving heavy vehicles without ABS.... They don't like to stop on ice..... Especially on hills. Assuming their may be ice present during the winter driving is just another thing I do on ANY approach. Because then if it IS there... You were already prepared for it and are able to handle the situation that much better.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Until you try to drive in the winter, because no driver can react to locked up wheels as fast as the computer can, and NO DRIVER can lock and unlock the brakes as fast as a good ABS system can.
Not to mention, when most people see a puppy, or a deer or another car cross in front of them when they weren't expecting it... Their first reaction is going to be to slam on the brakes. Without ABS, this will cause all 4 tires to lockup, and you lose steering completely, potentially flipping the car in the process. With ABS, the wheels will still turn, and you may be able to steer around said obstacle.
The operative word here is "good."
A bad ABS system is still often better than nothing, but IMO the benefit is small enough that you still need to be a decent driver to work with it... at which point you almost might as well remove the ABS system and save the weight.
Plus, I have a feeling BuickGN has a good deal more experience than you do in low-traction conditions.
Probably. But you find me a driver in which the scenario I described will not result in a panic braking. The ABS on my cavalier isn't that great, but without it I definitely would have been in an accident this past winter. I pulled into the school parking lot, which is a slight downslope. Doing, 10ish mph, road looked clear. Vehicles up ahead waiting in line.... put brakes on to stop. Kept sliding, ABS kicked in and I managed to steer to the side. Black ice, completely invisble on the road surface they used.
Having driven everything from a Fox Body Mustang with summer tires on it to a diesel pick-up in the winter for the last 15 years, and commuting through the New Brunswick snow belt for a year through one of the worst winters I can remember, I do believe I am qualified to speak about this.
ABS has never made the difference between me hitting and not hitting something in the winter. I've never hit anything in the winter, or been in a winter accident. [censored], I drove my motorcycle home 7Km in 3" of snow because I was [censored]-bent on driving it until the snow flew..... (December) and it did! LOL!
I've never locked up the wheels in an emergency stop without knowing what to do when it happens. And I have NEVER come close to almost flipping/rolling a vehicle; not stopping for deer; avoiding an accident or whatever.
Proper CONTROL of the vehicle is what the general population lacks. Combine that and poor vehicular maintenance and you have derelict wrecks being driven by incompetitent pylons who are depending on band-aide systems to make up for their lack of driving skill.
Do I like having the ABS on the Expedition? Sometimes. It makes "lazy" winter braking easier. But knowing how to winter drive; LEARNING how to winter drive in vehicles that don't have ABS.... Mean it is far from a necessity for me.
There was another poster a while back who argued that every person should learn to drive on a gutless piece of junk that is stick and has power NOTHING. I agree with that sentiment.
Like BuickGN..... I like to steer with the throttle. Anybody who's ever driven a powerful RWD car with no Nannie features knows how much fun that can be. But it is a learning experience as well.
In your exact situation? I would have let off the brakes to steer, alternating between brakes and steering to direct a course. My approach may have also been slower. Again, that is from years of experience driving heavy vehicles without ABS.... They don't like to stop on ice..... Especially on hills. Assuming their may be ice present during the winter driving is just another thing I do on ANY approach. Because then if it IS there... You were already prepared for it and are able to handle the situation that much better.
