Couldn't Deposit $1000 for Tesla Model 3 !

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Question for those Tesla haters, is there an EV that costs $35,000 or less with these features:

. Not as ugly as BMW I3.
. 215 miles or more per charge and free use of Superchargers that can charge the battery to 80% in 30 minutes or less, so that you can travel from New York to California using Superchargers along the way.
. Accelerate from zero to 60 mph in less than 6 seconds.
. Made in America by American.
. Don't have to deal with Stealers.


The Bolt pictured above?

 

[Nate1979]

Chevy Bolt
Charge to 90% in 30 min
Supercharger network available thru public chargers
Made in America by Americans
Dealership network to take care of issues and do service
Acceleration 0-60 in less than 7 sec.
Will be in full production this year
Is currently in Pilot production.
Made by a company who actually knows how to mass produced a car.

 

[fdcg27]

I doubt that very many $35K cars will get built.
Those wanting the bare-bones model might end up waiting on a car that'll never get built.
It's generally accepted that optioned up cars provide higher margins than basic ones and if I were Tesla and had the choice, I'd go for the higher margin units and would only build the basic cars when and if I had capacity to spare.
Also, is CR now the bible of car evaluation?
Funny how many of us will alternately quote and dis a source depending upon whether its opinions match our own.
While I may be a skeptic, this new Tesla does look promising, but then so does the Chevy Bolt.
If Tesla succeeds with this car, then Tesla will be the first new domestic volume producer to emerge in many decades.
That would be cause for celebration.

 

[Cujet]

This is why electric cars need excellent range:

For the record, I drove one of these BMW i3 electric cars. It was probably the worst new car I've ever driven. The magazines make all sorts of claims about it being fun to drive. I found just the opposite. Pitching it into a corner resulted in a lot of body roll, and very poor grip. While not unstable, it handled like the tall, skinny, bicycle tired car it is.

I find the Chevy Bolt to be just as ugly. Like many Americans, I like, wide, low, capable looking cars. I dislike tall and skinny.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
This is why electric cars need excellent range:

For the record, I drove one of these BMW i3 electric cars. It was probably the worst new car I've ever driven. The magazines make all sorts of claims about it being fun to drive. I found just the opposite. Pitching it into a corner resulted in a lot of body roll, and very poor grip. While not unstable, it handled like the tall, skinny, bicycle tired car it is.

To quote Dr. Evil.

"Electric"

 

[Vikas]

Well Jet, if you drive S for fun, I don't think you are going to be impressed with i3. You can no longer purchase an EV unless it is S.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I doubt that very many $35K cars will get built.
Those wanting the bare-bones model might end up waiting on a car that'll never get built.
It's generally accepted that optioned up cars provide higher margins than basic ones and if I were Tesla and had the choice, I'd go for the higher margin units and would only build the basic cars when and if I had capacity to spare.

Tesla and all other companies like to sell higher margin products if they can. But I think Tesla will not do what you think, satisfy higher margin orders only and ignore bare bone orders for the first few year. It would give the press something to write, Tesla didn't spend any penny for advertising/marketing, the last hing they want is bad press.

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Also, is CR now the bible of car evaluation?
Funny how many of us will alternately quote and dis a source depending upon whether its opinions match our own.
While I may be a skeptic, this new Tesla does look promising, but then so does the Chevy Bolt.
If Tesla succeeds with this car, then Tesla will be the first new domestic volume producer to emerge in many decades.
That would be cause for celebration.

Didn't you see some reports about CR rating Tesla Model S the last few months ? TV, Radio, internet ... did some articles about CR had Tesla Model S broke the 100 points scale.

What was the best selling Luxury sedan of any kind, ICE or EV, the ones that cost more than $70k, in US last year ? Was it MB S-class ? or BMW 7-series ? or Tesla Model S ? I think you know what was the best selling luxury sedan in US for the year 2015. There was one thing really stand out in that report, only 1 luxury car sale increased from 2014.

One of many commenters in this article about Chevy Bolt.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/drove-chevy-answer-tesla-everyone-140500081.html

Quote:
The Bolt is probably a fine car but I still don't understand why the major manufactures aren't smart enough to get it. People want a good looking "normal" car. Not some transformer cartoon looking thing. People are all over Tesla because the majority of folks think they are good looking luxury vehicles. Period.


I think you should know that BMW I8 is very hot, they sold all I8 they could produce even with MSRP of $150k. Why it is so hot ? Because it is a great looking car.

People are not only looking for utilities when they buy a new vehicle, they also looking for a good looking one, not an ugly one like BMW I3. If you think Chevy Bolt is as good looking as Model 3, I have nothing else to say.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Well Jet, if you drive S for fun, I don't think you are going to be impressed with i3. You can no longer purchase an EV unless it is S.

We don't know what are the options for Model 3 yet. This is my guess: it is possible that Model 3 will have performance options, such as 4 wheel drive with bigger motor(s) and can accelerate from zero to 60 in less than 4 seconds, but at what price is unknown as of now.

Actually, a smaller/lighter Model 3(with performance option) can be more fun to drive than larger/heavier Model S. Even if performance isn't up to bigger brother.

This will satisfy Cujet's demand from an EV.

 

[fdcg27]

Did you miss the point of what I wrote?
CR's collective editorial opinion of the Tesla Model S is hardly the final or only one out there.
Also, EM remains a media darling, and the mass media won't look much beyond the claimed $35K base price. Anyone who whines publically will be given their $1K back and this will be portrayed as an example of integrity rather than failure to deliver.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR


Actually, a smaller/lighter Model 3(with performance option) can be more fun to drive than larger/heavier Model S. Even if performance isn't up to bigger brother.

This will satisfy Cujet's demand from an EV.


It is always possible a smaller car will be more responsive and fun. And I'll bet the Model 3 will be every bit as much fun as it's larger brother. The low center of gravity, by it's very nature, leads to a great feeling car.

But Good God that Model S "D" is fun! It's so fast, it's silly. And it really does corner very well with near zero body roll, it's light on it's feet and has huge, very effective brakes. In South Florida, where roads are generally straight and fast, the big 'ol Model S is a wonderful machine.

 

[Dave Hess]

Yeah. Down here you never have to worry about bad roads.

I would be a Tesla if it was more affordable.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Yeah. Down here you never have to worry about bad roads.

I would be a Tesla if it was more affordable.

Ev price is high because of the battery cost.

Fiat 500 EV with less than 100 miles range has MSRP $32,800, and the CEO said that he lost $14k for every one EV sold. So it costs them $47,000 to build.

Tesla may be able to reduce the price of next generation EV if and when they can improve and reduce the cost of battery from their Megafactory in Nevada.

 

[DuckRyder]

It is a pretty good looking car, suspect someone who comes up with a good looking stick on grill will make a mint.

If he can build enough cars and they meet or exceed the claims it will be a success.

I would hazard a guess that the flat black one is some sort of performance model.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Yeah. Down here you never have to worry about bad roads.

I would be a Tesla if it was more affordable.

Ev price is high because of the battery cost.

Fiat 500 EV with less than 100 miles range has MSRP $32,800, and the CEO said that he lost $14k for every one EV sold. So it costs them $47,000 to build.

Tesla may be able to reduce the price of next generation EV if and when they can improve and reduce the cost of battery from their Megafactory in Nevada.



The battery pack is no doubt costly.
OTOH, I'd expect most or all of that cost to be offset by not having to pay for an IC engine, a transmission or an emissions system.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The battery pack is no doubt costly.
OTOH, I'd expect most or all of that cost to be offset by not having to pay for an IC engine, a transmission or an emissions system.

We don't really know exactly why EV is so much more expensive than ICE, other than battery is very costly other parts such as electric motor(s) and control(s) are not so expensive.

There are much fewer parts in an EV compares with ICE, that is why Tesla claims that their Model 3 has more passenger and cargo room than ICE vehicle of the same footprint.

Quote:
May 21 Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne has a request for potential buyers of the automaker's Fiat 500e electric car: Don't buy it. He's tired of losing money.

Speaking at a conference in Washington on Wednesday, Marchionne said Tesla Motors Inc was the only company making money on electric cars and that was because of the higher price point for its Model S sedan. Decrying the federal and state mandates that push manufacturers to build electric cars[/b], Marchionne said he hoped to sell the minimum number of 500e cars possible.

"I hope you don't buy it because every time I sell one it costs me $14,000," he said to the audience at the Brookings Institution about the 500e. "I'm honest enough to tell you that."


Quote:
The gasoline-powered Fiat 500 starts at almost $17,300 including delivery charges, while the 500e starts at $32,650 before federal tax credits. Consumers are not willing to pay a price that covers Fiat's costs so it loses money on the 500e.

Through April, the automaker sold 11,514 of the 500 cars in the United States this year, down about 15 percent from the same period last year. The company does not break out 500e sales.

"I will sell the (minimum) of what I need to sell and not one more," Marchionne said of the 500e.



http://www.reuters.com/article/chrsyelr-ceo-evs-idUSL1N0O71MS20140521

I think Fiat CEO means they would manufacture a minimum number of 500e to sell it in US to comply with mandated, even if they have to take a loss of more than $14,000 from manufacturing cost. Currently Fiat 500e has heavy discount from MSRP but they still could not sell many.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: user52165
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Is this kinda like the Tucker 48?


Well, NO.

If you knew anything about Tucker and Tesla, you wouldn't ask such a question. Couldn't be more different.
Tucker took orders for cars that were never built.that's what ultimately got him in trouble

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: user52165
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Is this kinda like the Tucker 48?


Well, NO.

If you knew anything about Tucker and Tesla, you wouldn't ask such a question. Couldn't be more different.
Tucker took orders for cars that were never built.that's what ultimately got him in trouble


That could happen with Tesla too. Tesla might just paint themselves into a corner and run into even more production problems and people waiting a lot longer than they want to for a car, or worse. I wouldn't leave any money on anything that hasn't even gone into production and has a vague delivery date at best.

 

[demarpaint]

Right now if you got a reservation for a Model 3 you might get it in 2019. They have 276K reservations, and people getting them counting on the $7,500 tax credit might not get it if they take title in 2019. They're talking about it on the news now.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Right now if you got a reservation for a Model 3 you might get it in 2019. They have 276K reservations, and people getting them counting on the $7,500 tax credit might not get it if they take title in 2019. They're talking about it on the news now.


Depending on when the Model 3 actually comes to market there is a chance almost none will get the full Fed tax credit. This is a major undertaking and the odds of a production delay is big. They could easily use up all their credits with Model S by 2018 and maybe Model 3 getting phase out credit.

http://www.teslarati.com/model-3-buyers-miss-federal-tax-credit/

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Right now if you got a reservation for a Model 3 you might get it in 2019. They have 276K reservations, and people getting them counting on the $7,500 tax credit might not get it if they take title in 2019. They're talking about it on the news now.


Depending on when the Model 3 actually comes to market there is a chance almost none will get the full Fed tax credit. This is a major undertaking and the odds of a production delay is big. They could easily use up all their credits with Model S by 2018 and maybe Model 3 getting phase out credit.

http://www.teslarati.com/model-3-buyers-miss-federal-tax-credit/


Exactly.